tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post8565421332697199768..comments2024-03-05T23:31:44.106-08:00Comments on Gay Family Values: Religious Freedom vs. Civil Right...The Pope Strikes back!GFVhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02950236433262366445noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-86449377199955026612011-04-21T21:39:33.059-07:002011-04-21T21:39:33.059-07:00Hey Bryan
I have 2 great friends both raised Catho...Hey Bryan<br />I have 2 great friends both raised Catholics.... the first 1 has a lesbian sister that she loves and likes her sister's partner but refused to go to their civil union because she doesn't believe in homosexuality, she doesn't think their partnership should be valid at all, so she basically doesn't accept homosexuality at all.. which I found mind-blogging when I had a vocal discussion with her (many times)<br />My other friend (Best friend whom I adore)<br />is accepting in that it doesn't personally offend her, her view is homosexuals aren't doing her harm so why should we harm them....<br />BTW I show her Depfox and she loves Jay...lol<br />Where Im a Bryan fan....lol<br />But my point they were both raised in the SAME church and went to the SAME catholic school but have totally different views... my 1st friend I told u about sometimes just pisses me off with her very ridged views on life in general... my 2nd friend and I have very different views but we enjoy our conversations over lots of ... lol<br />BellaBellalee40https://www.blogger.com/profile/18151955830827702930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-77581677315955041632010-02-04T12:58:52.333-08:002010-02-04T12:58:52.333-08:00I guess the Vatican really only meant violence aga...I guess the Vatican really only meant violence against gays is not okay. They do mention discrimination, so one would think they would support anti-discrimination laws like in UK, but I guess they dont mean that by discrimination (then what exactly do they mean when using that word? See, just a lie.)<br />http://baptistplanet.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/vatican-opposes-anti-gay-violence-no-mention-of-uganda/<br /><br />It actually also doesnt make sense. I think, and many with me, any anti-gay/lesbian speech coming from Vatican/Pope is hatespeech, which can incite violence, yet, they condemn violence against gays&lesbians. So, thats quite contradictory. Fundamentalist religion doesnt make sense anyway.Summerwenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11739437254497851960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-75456520673906987742010-02-04T12:28:07.615-08:002010-02-04T12:28:07.615-08:00Bryan, Im so sick and tired of this nazi-pope. Yes...Bryan, Im so sick and tired of this nazi-pope. Yes, thats what he is. The Vatican released a statement a while ago saying they dont want homosexuals to be discriminated against, I will see if I can find an English version of that statement, so you can read it. It was groundbreaking, and a Dutch gay ex-politician now working for the Human Rights Campaign was involved in that statement (meaning, he did a lot of work behind the scenes to get this off the ground). To then read about this new statement shows again how much of a liars these people at Vatican really are.<br />Also, many Catholic Dutch turned their back on the Vatican many years ago because of it's hypocricy and cruelty it dishes out, even if it's just 'opinions', so the Pope does not have any hold on the Catholics here and Im very happy about it. The Catholics here cannot be compared with the fundamentalists you have in the USA btw, here they are the most pro-human rights of any religious group we have.<br />Anyway, as one of the posters here mentions, Pope has no influence on UK laws. But the fact the Vatican even feels and wants to insert themselves in UK politics is a basic violation. And the need to make such statements is just a gross discrimination of homosexuals. I have no respect for the man whatsoever, and with me, glady many Dutch dont have either.<br />Lets see what he has to say when he visits Portugal that is working on gay marriage, and almost 100% sure it will fully pass. Im sure he will piss on that, too.<br />By the way, Luxemburg (small country inbetween Germany, France and Belgium) is working on gay marriage, and their government stated it will be legalized this year! So, good news.<br />Sorry for sounding so pissed off, Im just fully done with the religious discriminatory bigots.<br />lol<br />Wendy xSummerwenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11739437254497851960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-2449414882318738462010-02-03T09:27:28.560-08:002010-02-03T09:27:28.560-08:00My parents subjected me to eight years of Catholic...My parents subjected me to eight years of Catholic school. Shame on you Mom and Dad!!! I especially hated going to confession!! Imagine being 8 years old and shoved into a small dark closet space...door is then shut and window is opened and behind the window is a shadowy figure of an old man!! This sounds like a horror flick to me!!! THEN..you had to tell him your sins!!! Seriously, what sins does an 8 year old have??? I used to make up stuff just to get out quickly..it was so scary.<br /><br />I think I have post traumatic stress syndrome!! lol<br /><br />The church needs MONEY!!!! Now..if I were the Pope I would accept EVERYONE!!! There would be more cash flow!!! I would let priests get married..allow women to be priests and stop bashing gay people!! I think the Church would find a lot more "souls" to fuel its appetite for money...<br /><br />But...I am not the Pope!Jim Stonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12387924451130690320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-2161847136263139642010-02-03T09:12:58.483-08:002010-02-03T09:12:58.483-08:00All the Catholic Church has to do is incorporate a...All the Catholic Church has to do is incorporate and they can now run for president here if they want. :(GFVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02950236433262366445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-29099301443780224022010-02-03T03:20:04.587-08:002010-02-03T03:20:04.587-08:00I think that first image of the popemobile has the...I think that first image of the popemobile has the wrong tagline - it should be "ancient fossils need the best protection possible."<br /><br />Re. the Single Equality Bill thing, it's actually not even as simplistic as you described. The provisions were there in order for the UK to comply with EU legislation, so the later amendments (which effectively gutted the changes in the Bill) will have to be overturned by the next government. So the Pope's declaration of victory is hollow - this is not something the Church can win as the decision has already been made at the European (i.e. Federal) level.<br /><br />Also, because the provisions were gutted by the House of Lords, rather than the House of Commons, that places the UK's system of government at odds with EU law, which requires that state governments be democratic; the Lords is a mixture of appointed (life peers) aristocratic (hereditary peers) judicial (Law Lords) and clerical (Lords Spiritual - senior CofE bishops & archbishops) positions, only a tiny proportion of which have ever fought an election - mostly life peers who are former Commons MPs. The House of Lords is, to my knowledge, the only legislative body in the entire EU whose members not subject to any degree of the democratic process. Importantly, the amendments were forced through by only a tiny number of votes, and had the Lords Spiritual not voted the amendments would have failed. So the difference was made by unelected legislators with an inherent vested interest. In American terms, it would be like giving the RC church votes in the US Senate. So an undemocratic body has tried to overturn an EU-mandated law.Tavdyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109151555493408645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-70633667877420092902010-02-02T21:12:27.933-08:002010-02-02T21:12:27.933-08:00I guess I'm not one to see the great value in ...I guess I'm not one to see the great value in the Pope, then again I'm not catholic. But to me the Palpaciy(SP) tends to come off heriticaly (SP) a majority of the time. I don't quite get the whole argument that the popes important be we just ignore what the pope says thing ether, its either one or the other. IF the pope is important they you can't simply ignore the pope and if he is not then there is no real reason to be "catholic" other then the common ground of whom they don't like as they are the only Church that is directed by the pope. <br />just my 2 cents<br />matthewaNorthWestViewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03598507140332496283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-10971859358439974912010-02-02T19:14:07.121-08:002010-02-02T19:14:07.121-08:00If the church doesn't want to deal with the se...If the church doesn't want to deal with the secular government and its "crazy" non-discrimination laws, they should stay in their churches. I do appreciate all the charitable things the churches do, and if they want to use these to spread the Christian faith, that's fine too, but they shouldn't preach discrimination and expect to be exempt from the rule of law.<br />I agree that Catholics acknowledge the pope, but most just see him as a figurehead and don't hang on his every word.<br />I also agree that the Roman Catholic Church is further alienating itself by going against what more progressive nations believe in. I am a history buff so I like the idea of the Vatican, but they have to change with the times or the Vatican will just be a tiny country in Rome.<br /><br />An interesting aside is that in my hometown, the First Baptist Church, which is/was the largest church in town has supposedly been kicked out of the Southern Baptist Convention for supporting gay youth. Apparently they sent around an offering plate to support gay youth, which they do have 4-5 gays in the church's youth group. I thought this was a bold action in a very conservative area and I was proud of the Pastor and his wife. I know his wife from teaching me in college and have met him before.<br />Of course this caused some people to leave the church and now there is another Baptist church that is growing exponentially and just built a new building. <br /><br />Just thought it would be beneficial to give an example of Christians that realize all people should be equal under God.Justinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-23016086647786147582010-02-02T15:21:58.749-08:002010-02-02T15:21:58.749-08:00@ orangegoblin
I agree with you. If religious ins...@ orangegoblin<br /><br />I agree with you. If religious institutions choose to oppose aspects of "freedom laws" (in Canada we have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms - I am not familiar with British Law, but I'm sure you have a similar sort of document), then they must be treated as other corporations as much as "freedom laws" will allow them to.<br /><br />In Canada, churches, being recognized as charitable organizations and community centers, receive enormous tax exemptions. I know that the church I attended until it no longer was any degree of comfortable would've been put under if it were not for these exemptions because the value of their land alone was well into the millions. An important precedent was set a couple weeks ago in Calgary though, where a <a href="http://www.slapupsidethehead.com/2010/01/anti-gay-church-stripped-of-charitable-status/" rel="nofollow">Protestant church</a> that was very vocally opposed to gay rights (moreso than traditional misinformation provided about homosexuals in churches) was removed from the list of charities that got these tax exemptions. This event was reason to cheer.<br /><br />@ NothWest<br /><br />I have found, speaking with some of my Catholic friends, that there are very few who actually approve of Pope Benedict's use of power to consolidate and strengthen the role of the Catholic Church in politics. However, they still stand by the existence of the Pope as an important part of human spiritual interaction. I liken it to the period of Russian History that preceeded Peter the Great (this is the History side of me coming in). His father's death, and the ensuing dual-Tzar rule between Peter and his brother (whose name escapes me right now) existed because people believed in the importance of having a legitimate, hereditary Tzar (his brother), but wanted another Tzar (Peter) because of his competence and popularity. As an individual, the brother was not popular. As a figure, the role of king was very important.<br /><br />I think Catholic support of the current Pope can maybe be understood as similar; "The Pope kind of sucks, we know that. But the Pope is an important position, even when the person sucks..." Does this make sense?canadianhumilityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17765821265373068860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-10199467444447881222010-02-02T15:02:30.567-08:002010-02-02T15:02:30.567-08:00@aNothWestView In my experience all the ordinary C...@aNothWestView In my experience all the ordinary Catholics I know tend to ignore quite a lot of the messages they're getting from Rome. Which is why they're still Catholics. <br /><br />@orangegoblin82 - all of this. Yes.<br /><br />I think possibly the new legislation does go too far - I understand it could affect hiring of youth pastors and similar. I may hate the message, but I do think they have a right to preach it, and so only those not doing any preaching should fall within the new law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-86186881367738046802010-02-02T14:19:02.880-08:002010-02-02T14:19:02.880-08:00Its a wonder that the Pop has much of a congragati...Its a wonder that the Pop has much of a congragation left to stand on, why his "fallowers" continue to fallow him is beyound me.<br />But its not suprising, the catholic church has and dose pull the same stunts here to, just with out the pope showing up at the front door each time. As a chruch the only binding force seems to be one of common hatred of certen groups of people.(such hart warming values)aNorthWestViewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03598507140332496283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-89665972537090485022010-02-02T14:01:03.673-08:002010-02-02T14:01:03.673-08:00I find it disgusting that the Catholic Church does...I find it disgusting that the Catholic Church does not accept women and gay people. If it were up to me, I'd make the Church illegal and imprison Ratzinger unless they accept both those groups as priests. "Religious freedom" my ass, that's pure discrimination, and it should be illegal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-71777959579556420612010-02-02T13:11:55.914-08:002010-02-02T13:11:55.914-08:00Well I think this.
It is fine for the Church to o...Well I think this.<br /><br />It is fine for the Church to only promote straight men to the priesthood. That is none of my business.<br /><br />But if they want to run schools (schools that receive government funding I would like to add) and employ teachers then they should have to play by the same rules as everyone else. If they want to run an accounts department then they will have to employ accountants on their merits.<br /><br />Why should they be above anyone else. The chairman of Marks and Spencers may hate gays, but he isn't allowed to sack us.<br /><br />The thing they are still smarting at is the fact that their adoption agencies aren't allowed to turn away gay couples. They received no opt outs for the provision of goods and services and they haven't shut up about it since.<br /><br />The Pope is going to have to get used to the fact that this isn't Italy and we have a secular culture here in the UK.orangegoblin82noreply@blogger.com