tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post8696933469168397287..comments2024-03-05T23:31:44.106-08:00Comments on Gay Family Values: The Person Behind The Pundit...Maggie GallagherGFVhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02950236433262366445noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-89642325405164873282012-02-22T16:56:21.390-08:002012-02-22T16:56:21.390-08:00I hadn't considered the problem of a limited p...I hadn't considered the problem of a limited partner pool, and I hope that time supports your idealism, too!Whitmansspidernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-48833756663343326762012-02-22T10:26:45.652-08:002012-02-22T10:26:45.652-08:00Leave or stay…. I agree that things can happen to...Leave or stay…. I agree that things can happen to any married couple that really put that commitment to the test, like health crises and failed businesses and that genitalia shouldn’t and doesn’t matter. Kinda gets you into that “for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health” territory. I do think, however, there are other factors apart from equality struggles to be able to marry in the first place that I at least would hope would cause gay spouses to cherish what they have more and that they would take affirmative steps to take good care of their marriages so when those kind of external roadblocks you mentioned happen, that we can stand up to those challenges better and not have our marriages crushed by them. Our pool of eligible mates available to us is tiny. Having only 5% or whatever small percent of the population being gay is a real problem. Then we, who want to eventually marry, have to screen out a sizeable plurality of that tiny population—i.e., the freaky, multiple f**kbuddy commitment-phobic bar “hoes”—as unsuitable life partners and an already serious problem is made that much worse. With the numbers so overwhelmingly against us, our chances of finding that same kind of enduring love again are pretty damn awful, relatively speaking, so we especially can ill afford to risk ruining our marriages out of complacency and neglect. And I very much hope that will eventually translate into a divorce rate among gays that is markedly less than for straights and that my idealism on this matter isn’t proven to be in vain.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-69817184061189082062012-02-21T23:09:50.060-08:002012-02-21T23:09:50.060-08:00Dave, I've wondered what the divorce rates in ...Dave, I've wondered what the divorce rates in same sex couples are and whether they are closer to national norms in countries where marriage equality is more established. Just a few days ago there was an article in HuffPo by a lesbian who is divorcing her wife. <br /><br />When you mentioned the seriousness of one's commitment, I couldn't help but be reminded something I saved from the comment thread of an article on gay marriage in May 2009. The commenter was williamyard and this is what he wrote:<br /><br /><br />The great thing about homosexual marriage is that it will allow gay people to play at marriage the way straight people have been playing at it for, like, forever.<br /><br />The county has reminded us again that our five acres of parched grass and weeds constitute a fire hazard; to alleviate part of the problem we've borrowed three horses and two mules to eat what they can stomach, which will likely amount to about a third of the offending kindling. To alleviate the rest I purchased a new weed whacker and hired a young man named Sebastian.<br /><br />Dried grass is not the only thing lying in wait on these hills. There are also snakes. We have corn snakes and garters and king snakes and, especially on hot days, which we've had not a few of lately, there are rattlesnakes.<br /><br />Sebastian knows this all too well because he just came from performing a similar chore for our next-door neighbor on his five acres. Our neighbor told us about the snakes, three of which made themselves known when the horses and mules came over week before last.<br /><br />Sebastian is 20 years old, married with a young wife at home who takes care of their young children. He is Mexican-American. He is poor. Before I gave him the go-ahead I asked him if he was worried about the snakes. He shrugged and said, "I need the money for my wife."<br /><br />Yesterday my daughter got married. The officiant said many wonderful things, including a bit about "commitment." The newly minted husband and wife nodded and beamed at each other. They know a bit about commitment, having maintained their relationship while several hundred miles apart for several months.<br /><br />However, they have not walked through fields of snakes to earn money for each other. Eventually we all must face the snakes. Sometimes it's not actually a snake in the grass but a spot on a lung. Sometimes it's a failed business, or an underwater mortgage, or a demented parent. Eventually the choice arrives: stay or walk.<br /><br />What happens then, when an open door beckons, is what marriage is all about. If someone can look at that open door, then close it and turn around and tell one's mate, "I'm here for you," one might actually be marriage material, just maybe. Otherwise everybody's just playing a game. Either way, genitalia has nothing to do with it.Whitmansspidernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-53626696584173618202012-02-20T17:06:56.071-08:002012-02-20T17:06:56.071-08:00I blogged about the incident here:
http://www.equ...I blogged about the incident here:<br /><br />http://www.equalityloudoun.org/2006/06/04/obi-wan-v-jabba/<br /><br />This is what I wrote back in June 2006:<br /><br />*After the forum, I stopped by the podium and asked Maggie if I could relate a personal story and ask a question. She hesitantly agreed. I told her that my husband and I just celebrated our son’s graduation, and that anti-gay activists had extended her sentiment that ‘every child deserves a mother and a father’ to claim that we raised our child out of ‘selfishness’. She acknowledged that our child rearing was probably not a nefarious act and that I do value family. I then asked if she lives in VA since IMAPP’s P.O. box is in Manassas. Her treasurer lives in Manassas. She lives in the Boston area. Regardless I gave her the voteNOva palm card and asked her how she would vote on our amendment. She read the first sentence and said she would vote yes. I asked her to read the entire amendment, she said she would vote yes to protect marriage based on the first clause:<br /><br />“That only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions.”<br /><br />She said she would not have written the amendment the way it’s written, but that she would vote yes. She was getting impatient. I asked her to acknowledge my situation, that the more I support marriage, the more I run afoul of the language:<br /><br />“intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance or effects of marriage.”<br /><br />She blinked and dismissed me with her body language. I felt as if Jabba the Hut had just picked me up, chewed off my legs, picked his teeth with my bones, and thrown me to the ground, expendable collateral damage in the all-important culture war.<br /><br />Epilogue “Living in Boston, Maggie should have a pretty good understanding of the actual changes in marriage since 2003. The marriage equality community can’t allow this slighted single-mother cross-bearing pundit to claim expertise in the ‘de-norming’ of marriage when she really doesn’t seem interested in our stories. She is however interested in highlighting every case where a disrespected non-traditional family or supporter lashes out and calls a ‘marriage-protector’ a bigot or homophobe.<br /><br />Maggie may be holding on to some personal resentment for the marginalization she experienced as a single parent. Yes, gay people can have sex and not get pregnant, but so can straight people. That’s not a good reason to deny us marriage equality.Jonathan Weintraubhttp://www.equalityloudoun.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-64730036086332285642012-02-20T13:32:19.688-08:002012-02-20T13:32:19.688-08:00Johnathan, it's rather dispeciable of her to s...Johnathan, it's rather dispeciable of her to say that. I for one have no desire to forgive her because of her past, she had made it clear that she doesn't care for other people, doesn't care about facts, and would continously spread lies no matter what. At least that's how i see her. While we should understand her past and a bit about her, we should never forget that she is too cold to care about facts and about LGBT couples and parents.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04774323687657622099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-49003797970971253892012-02-20T13:18:53.562-08:002012-02-20T13:18:53.562-08:00Maggie’s happy for you my ass. It’s one thing to ...Maggie’s happy for you my ass. It’s one thing to hold those views in the abstract without actually seeing the people you’re hurting, but it’s so much worse to spew that kind of hate right to your face so unflinchingly. Whatever tiny amount of compassion I might have started feeling toward her as a result of Bryan’s post just got erased by hearing what she said directly to you. I think we need to return her dehumanized badge of shame to her. Congratulations, Maggie. I’m so happy for you…. ;->Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-87302453533661331822012-02-20T04:50:48.845-08:002012-02-20T04:50:48.845-08:00I met Maggie at a Cato Institute lecture in 2006. ...I met Maggie at a Cato Institute lecture in 2006. Virginia was about to pass a draconian marriage "protection" constitutional amendment and the Virginia blogosphere was extremely ugly, many of them repeating her memes ad-nausium. She told her personal story. It was compelling, but it was purely emotional. She presented no evidence that "the idea of marriage" was a very fragile concept that required Victorian purity to ward off decay.<br /><br />After the lecture, we had a three minute face to face. I explained that I was married to a man and that we raised a child together. The said she was very happy for me, but cautioned that my family was an idea that should not exist and that she would do everything possible, politically, to insure that in the eyes of the law, we never would.Jonathan Weintraubhttp://www.equalityloudoun.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-65800731163482671512012-02-18T21:56:36.599-08:002012-02-18T21:56:36.599-08:00Very interesting blog, it really is different to s...Very interesting blog, it really is different to see those that so oppose us and our rights, in such a light. It is hard to say if I hate any person of not, I mean it's like if Maggie had something bad happen to her I would feel bad for her, or hypothetically if she was in parallel and needed my help I would help her, or even Santorum etc, but I also can't say that I get anywhere near the warm and fuzzy's about them as people ether. I would never wish ill on them but it's hard to see them as good people when they work so hard and do so much to harm me with out even ever meeting and knowing me.aNorthWestViewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03598507140332496283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-59761458901008007962012-02-18T19:35:57.695-08:002012-02-18T19:35:57.695-08:00Wonderful story!Wonderful story!Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532571881533774661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-51324246167692926382012-02-18T19:22:04.156-08:002012-02-18T19:22:04.156-08:00Interesting…. Maybe a new tactic we can use on Ma...Interesting…. Maybe a new tactic we can use on Maggie Gallager is to call her out on her apparent sublimation against gays and lesbians seeking to marry and suggest that her real beef is with straight men who don’t take love and commitment seriously, get you pregnant and then abandon you and your child. Unlike the hetero sleezoid who knocked her up, there is no such thing as an unintended pregnancy among GLTB people. Any children we get, whether through surrogacy or adoption, are carefully planned for and very much wanted and loved. Sure, we have some slutty barflies in our community, but those clearly aren’t the slice of us who show up to marry. Those of us who want to marry and fight so hard for the right to marry take our love, commitment and our vows very seriously, maybe even MORE seriously than our straight counterparts. When those of us who are fortunate enough to marry after much struggle, none of which is faced by straights, we cherish our marriages and our life partners so much more. We worked hard for this. We strive harder to make our marriages work and be successful, not only because we might possibly value them more but we desperately don’t want to fail at them and give our right-wing opponents any satisfaction or ammunition of “see, we told you those gays aren’t suitable marriage material. Just look at them….” So our underlying values toward marriage—true seriousness about our commitment—are really in sync with Maggie’s underlying sentiments, absent her misplaced and sublimated homophobic tantrums. If anything, she arguably should stand with anyone, gay or straight, who takes the commitment of marriage seriously. Those of us who marry couldn’t even fathom treating our partners the way Maggie’s former boyfriend did her and who hurt her so badly.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-587902609826926070.post-77731494432980871652012-02-18T16:38:51.476-08:002012-02-18T16:38:51.476-08:00Sometimes, when a person gets so wrapped up in the...Sometimes, when a person gets so wrapped up in the fight, they forget to take a moment and ask if there's a better way to resolve it. I know I've said the tactics used so far (pies in the face and glitter bombs are funny, I admit) have only bolstered the message that LGBTQ are hateful and anti-everything decent. We, as a community, need to support each other instead of focusing on our differences as gay men, gay women, bisexuals, and transgendered and, instead, focus on what links us. Perhaps we need to be examples of the compassion and decency we want shown to us by taking a moment to ask "why?" This article, and this perspective, is not an apology to those acting against our recognized legal rights. It's certainly not surrender, either. It takes great strength, courage, and decency to seek to understand someone who has been so vocal against our recognized legal rights. Healing, and understanding, has to begin somewhere. As difficult as it can be, as frustrating as it is when others who don't take the time to know us speak so harshly against us, we come out because we are strong enough to tell the world "this is who I am." We can be strong enough to be a better example of what morality is.Angela Shaferhttp://thecovenantseries.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com