Monday, August 20, 2012

The Family Research Council Shooting...A Little Perspective


OK...this has been the busiest week I have had in some time and this the first chance I have had to respond to the shooting that took place recently at the DC offices of The Family Research Council and I have a lot to say about it.....

For those of you who may not be up on what happened, 28 year old Floyd Lee Corkins(above) walked into the DC office of the anti-gay lobbying organisation, The Family Research Council, with a gun and a back pack full of Chick-Fil-A sandwiches...made the statement, " I don't like your politics." and opened fire hitting a security guard in the arm. In spite of having been shot, the guard...Leo Johnson...managed to wrestle Corkins to the ground before he could hurt anyone else...rightfully, earning him the title of hero. In addition to Corkins comments and the contents of his bag, he was also reported to be a volunteer at the local LGBT center. Given the history of The FRC's actions against the gay community...a history that earned them a listing as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center....there is little doubt that Corkins chose this violent act because....well, I can't even guess what he thought he was going to accomplish by shooting people in cold blood...but we know it had everything to do with the long history of the FRC and it's work against LGBT people....more about that after the jump.

First off I need to say that picking up a gun and shooting random people because you are angry or frustrated with the world is just plain wrong. Period. Full Stop. My heart goes out to the security guard who stopped Floyd Corkins from hurting more people. I feel that what he did was the essence of bravery and self sacrifice. Not many people would continue to subdue an attacker after having been shot once already and face that attacker at point blank range.

 Now.... I wish I could stop there. In a situation like this it is just simple human compassion and decency to support those who lived through it, pick up the pieces and help the healing to begin. But instead, what we often do is look for a source of blame. Being that the Corkins was gay and the victim in this case was one of the most prolific and vocal of anti-gay lobbying organisations. It didn't take much to know where this was going to end up.

Let the martyrdom of the FRC and every religiously motivated anti-gay group begin in 3...2...1...





I really got to give it to Tony...in the same breath that he claims that only Floyd Lee Corkins is responsible for the shooting...he then goes right on to blame the SPLC for "making it possible" for this act to occur because...as he claims...they recklessly  labeled the FRC as a hate group. Well guess what....you are Blanche..you are...


And of course, Brian Brown and The National Organisation for Marriage....never one to miss an opportunity to paint the gay community as aggresors and themselves as victims, popped up to defend their sister org. Here is Brian Browns take on the shooting....

"Today's attack is the clearest sign we've seen that labeling pro-marriage groups as 'hateful' must end," said Brian Brown, President of NOM. "The Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled the Family Research Council a 'hate group' for its pro-marriage views, and less than a day ago the Human Rights Campaign issued a statement calling FRC a 'hate group'—they even specified that FRC hosts events in Washington, DC, where today's attack took place."  
"NOM has always condemned all violence and vilification connected to our ongoing national debate about the meaning and definition of marriage," Brown stated. "For too long national gay rights groups have intentionally marginalized and ostracized pro-marriage groups and individuals by labeling them as 'hateful' and 'bigoted' -- such harmful and dangerous labels deserve no place in our civil society and NOM renews its call today for gay rights groups and the Southern Poverty Law Center to withdraw such incendiary rhetoric from a debate that involves millions of good Americans," added Brown.  
Brown concluded: "Violence is never the answer, and on that we all must agree, or risk the consequences.

While What Brian says is true on the surface, both NOM and the FRC better take a good look in the mirror. The Family Research Council and NOM are attempting a sleight of hand here and one that they should not be allowed to get away with.....even in the face of something as wrong as this shooting attempt. They are attempting to use Floyd Lee Corkins actions to distract your eye and focus on him while hoping desparately that you will not notice that they have been guilty of doing exactly what they are accusing the SPLC of.....demonizing a group of people through concerted effort, actively promoting discrimination, and creating an enviroment in which people capable of violence feel justified in doing so.


The Southern Poverty Law Center is a respected and mainstream organisation that tracks hate groups and extremists of all kinds including organisations like the kkk(who Tony Perkins has been linked to). This is a connection that Tony Perkins and the FRC does not like because it gives a big black eye to their image as a fair-minded moderate lobbying organisation merely  advancing a pro-family point of view. Unfortunately they are anything but that and there is substantial documentation to prove it. This is exactly why they ended up on the SPLC's list. So...this is no simple disagreement over policy matters. This is a matter of fact and public record. The FRC has earned their designation for a great many reasons, like these found on  the SPLC's dossier on the Family Research Council and printed in the FRC's own words:



“While activists like to claim that pedophilia is a completely distinct orientation from homosexuality, evidence shows a disproportionate overlap between the two. … It is a homosexual problem.”— FRC President Tony Perkins, FRC website, 2010
“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.”— Robert Knight, FRC director of cultural studies, and Frank York, 1999 
"Since homosexual conduct is associated with higher rates of sexual promiscuity, sexually transmitted diseases, mental illness, substance abuse, and domestic violence, it too qualifies as a behavior that is harmful to the people who engage in it and to society at large."— Tony Perkins, “Christian compassion requires the truth about the harms of homosexuality,”Washington Post, 10/25/2010
“[W]elcoming open homosexuality in the military would clearly damage the readiness and effectiveness of the force – in part because it would increase the already serious problem of homosexual assault in the military.”— Peter Sprigg, “Homosexual Assault in the Military," 2010

And here's a couple of gems I dug up from the very recent past:

"I would much prefer to export homosexuals from the United States than to import them into the United States because we believe that homosexuality is destructive to society" ---Peter Sprigg, "Gays Seek Immigration Reform" (Youtube, Medill Reports 2008) 
Some homosexuals may recognize intuitively that their same-sex attractions are abnormal--yet they have been told by the homosexual movement, and their allies in the media and the educational establishment, that they are "born gay" and can never change. This--and not society's disapproval--may create a sense of despair that can lead to suicide. --Tony Perkins "Christian Compassion Requires The Truth About Harms Of Homosexuality", (Washington Post 2010) 
 Claims that "It's a fact that homosexuality leads to eternal damnation." Tony Perkins (Called To Action 2009)

This list is just  a very few of a rather long list of reasons that the FRC landed on the Southern Poverty Law Centers hate group list. There is so much more, including Peter Spriggs view that the Supreme Court should impose "criminal sanctions against homosexual behavior" from an article on a Christian website which has since been removed for obvious reasons.... and Tony Perkins acting as a spokesperson for the FRC when praising Uganda's "Kill The Gays" Bill. I recommend checking out GLAAD's Commentator Accountability Project for a more  extensive list Peter Spriggs and Tony Perkins vilification and literal demonization of the gay community. Yet I think with just the short list you can get a clear view of what the FRC espouses and that it goes far beyond "simply disagreeing on policy." Through their words and actions they have been casting us as subhuman and worthy of the legal discrimination they espouse. From there it is not a far jump for some to go to violence. They are a hate group with ties to other known hate groups. They just happen to be slightly more polished and publically acceptable to trot out in front of congress because the people they practice hate against happen to the the gay community. If any of the quotes above had been about a racial group....would we even have to be debating this? I strongly doubt it.

I have been reading about the FRC for some time in my relatively short tenure in blogging but I have learned one thing about them...they wear two faces. One for public at large and another for when they are among others like them and think no one is watching. There is the  fair minded version with the very precise and controlled talking points that bends over backwards to frame themselves as simply "Pro family". That version of the FRC does it's best to be civil and not literally call us the Devil in front of a TV camera. This careful control over how they are percieved has allowed them access to the halls of congress and invites to testify in major policy debates such as over DADT, ENDA, and DOMA. It gets them on CNN regularly as the alleged moderate voice of opposition to gay rights much to the chagrin of anyone who knows better. But then there is this one...the one that does nothing to had that their opposition to us is wholly and completely religiously based:



Oh...and did I mention that many of the "Studies" they sighted to make the claims they do came from discredited researchers like Paul Cameron? The case for anti-gay animus just gets worse and worse as it becomes clear that the FRC will use discredited data and outright lies to advance their religious agenda. Some may call that...vile...intollerant...and hatefull perhaps?

In my opinion, what Floyd Lee Corkins did was wrong. The people he would have killed in the lobby of the FRC may have had little to do with the organisation itself. And while all of us may be able to identify with the anger that drove Corkins to do this...all I feel this will accomplish is that it will make those who oppose us feel further justified in their hysteria and discrimination against us. Not that anyone at the Family Research Council would ever pick up a gun and fire it personally....but through their actions they encourage and support those who would. They still support ex-gay therapy and claim(somewhat circumspectly now the exodus is off the map)...that being gay is a choice and that we can be changed. They actively oppose bullying programs in school and instead blame LGBT teen suicide on their feelings of being "abnormal". Well gee...I wonder where that feeling came from eh? Perhaps from the FRC working with local churches hammering home the idea that being gay is something to be ashamed of and should be changed?  These kids were not abnormal....nor did they commit suicide out of some "intuition" of abnormality. They gave in to despair because their peers felt entitled to treat them as subhuman. And those kids got that from their own families who in turn got it from churches who agree and work with the FRC to make sure these kids felt "abnormal". And these are just the kids that made the news. How many more must there be?.....










These kids each had to make a decision to commit suicide. That is the mechanism the Tony Perkins and Peter Sprigg use to distance themselves from the fact that what they do helps bring this about. But instead of acknowledging that....they blame the kids and some bullsh*t idea of intuition of abnormality...a feeling that they helped create.

But there is more....so much more... The men and women who for no fault of their own are beaten, shot, or terrorized because they are gay. When you brand a group of people as sick, bad, and less then worthy of human dignity, this is what you get...

A 17 year old girl beaten so badly she required a plate put in her head...beaten by full grown men because she is gay:



52 yr old John Skaggs beaten to the point of needing reconstructive surgery:



Dane Hall, 20 years old...attacked while leaving a gay club in Salt Lake City. He lost six teeth in the attack, suffered a broken jaw, and had a piece of bone lodged in his brain:



Kristen Cooper beaten outside a Halloween party in San Antonio Texas by two men:



Here is Emmanuel Winston, one of two men attacked and beaten after a softball game in Austin, Texas:




Scott Patronick...beaten to death in Phillipsburg, New Jersey:



I could go on for a very long time with this, but I think I've made my point. While what Floyd Lee Corkins did was very misguided and absolutely wrong....for the Tony Perkins of the FRC and Brian Brown of NOM to turn this around and claim that Corkins was enabled because the SPLC labeled them a hate group is to turn a blind eye to all these people have gone through because of their own hatefull actions and words over the years. Tony Perkins may not have pulled a trigger or swung a punch...but by his own definition, he is just as guilty of these attacks as the people who actually did them.

Additionally, not all violence is physical. Sometimes it's felt the worst in the loss of our families when we come out to them. That also is the legacy of people like Tony Perkins and Peter Sprigg. Preach in churches about the evils of the homosexual agenda, they pay for commercials and media that lie about us and scare teh public into thinking we are all scary monsters bent on destroying all that is precious....many of those people listening are our parents. That's how letters like this one come to be written...




I will not let the Family Research Council or NOM roll over and bleat like helpless victims on this one. It is complete and utter bullsh*t and they do not have the right. Tony Perkins, Peter Sprigg, and the FRC are there because of your own actions and I'm hazarding a guess that NOM could easily follow if they continue to let there own veneer of civility continue to slip. This horrible event does not give the FRC a pass on all it has done.

In addition, lets be clear about one thing...groups like the FRC and NOM like to soften there image with lingo like pro-marriage or pro-family in order to hide the fact that the only think they are...the only reason they exist is to be anti-gay.  But no matter matter how much they try to carefully craft there message... to pretend to an image of mainstream fairness...their actions and the ripples they cause in the world prove their words to be utterly false and I feel that increasing numbers of  people are beginning to see that. Tony Perkins can cry crocodile tears on CNN all day and it will not change the facts of their actions. People are beginning to understand who the FRC is and what it really does...as they also are of NOM, the AFA, and the rest of the alphabet soup of organisations who's only goal is to make sure LGBT's don't sully their vision of society by being included in it.

In closing I believe that what Floyd Corkins felt, we as gay people may all understand to some degree though what he did was totally wrong. It was a terrible and unconscionable thing to do and would have solved nothing. That said...Tony Perkins does not get to put himself and the FRC on the cross until they take off the gay people they have already nailed there. There game is in controlling the message and we have to stand up and set the record straight.

Until next time dear readers....

24 comments:

  1. Good article. I wasn't aware of this shooting but I was wondering if something like this would happen, but I was expecting it to happen at a Chick-Fil-A establishment. I don't defend the shooting, that's not right, but I can understand it. When you have these HATE groups out there such as the FRC and NOM, organisations whose goals are to spread lies and hate about gay people, I find it hard to pity them when such a horrific incident befalls them.

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  2. Confidential to Tony Perkins: If you look like a snake, slither like a snake, hiss like a snake and bite like a snake, don't claim to be a mongoose.

    If a black person walked into the headquarters of the KKK and opened fire, how would we expect other black people to react? How would we expect white people to react? I suspect it would be somewhat different from how gay and straight people have rected in this case, and yet the FRC and KKK aren't really so different.

    Granted, the FRC doesn't actively go out and lynch gay people (as far as we know) but they do effectively advocate in favour of the state doing just that by supporting "kill the gays" bills, and similarly they are morally responsible for the deaths of untold numbers of LGBT teens who take their own lives because of the hatred and discrimination that FRC and others like them encourage.

    However there is one key area in which it can be said that the FRC is morally worse than the KKK. The Klan is honest about the fact that their racism is based purely upon animus. The FRC's homophobia is likewise based on simple animus, but they go to phenomenal lengths to hide the truth from the public.

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  3. it's dissapointing that someone would try and use violence as an answer to FRC. While i don't condone his behavior, FRC is truly disgusting; calling gays pedophiles, saying that hitler recruited gays into nazi party and claiming that gays are more violent than straights, and that gays are out to get kids. Complete lie and without evidence to back them up.

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  4. I am all for "free speech" but when you deliberately tell lies about an entire segment of the population to whip up hate and demonize them then you should be held accountable somehow-perhaps legally for the results.
    I felt the same way a couple years ago when Bill O'Reilly on his radio and TV kept going on about "George Tiller the baby killer" (George Tiller was the physician in the Midwest who was performing LEGAL abortions) and a crazy gunman came into Dr. Tiller's church on a Sunday and murdered him. Did Bill O'Reilly murder Dr. Tiller? No..he did not but he planted a seed of rage in an obviously disturbed human being. People need to be held accountable for spewing hate especially when they know the results will probably end in tragedy..

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    1. that is the rub though, when a person is so caught up in their hate spewing all they can see is hate and they cannot see beyond that hate to anything reasonable like probable outcomes..and people need few enough reasons to kill, maim or destroy one another as it is.

      i am all for holding people accountable for lies they spread, people forget its called propaganda and it always has a purpose.

      a funny thing about free speech, if someone knowingly spread lies in written or verbal form, if the targets can show loss and tie it to those lies then free speech protections do not protect the person/organization spouting those lies. the reason these organizations hide behind religious protections as well is because the government stays out of the majority of cases involving the expression of religion, its a tricky thing.

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    2. Yes..that is the new definition of "religious freedom"-the freedom to "hate." I wonder if you put a line though "LGBT people" ind inserted let's say "African Americans" or "Jews" and said the same words.."they are all pedophiles".."they are against GOD" they are "leading our nation to the next step-POLIGAMY!" I wonder if the news media and society treat their words the same? I think not.

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  5. Interesting post. I am of the opinion that Corkins had no plan in this one. I mean seriously, had he planned he just would have waited until lunch time. From there you could just pick off your targets. And if he'd taken down Sprigg or Perkins I would have jumped for joy!

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    1. I would not jump for joy if Perkins or Sprigg were murdered, though i won't feel sadness or pity for them either. I would much rather Perkins and all the other bigots be held accountable and be shown for what they really are in hope to reveal that everything they said about LGBT people were not just lies, but extremely harmful because it caused people to murder people who are gay or "who look gay" or have youths kill themselves because of their sexuality. To murder them would only make bigots paranoid into believing that they were right. Anger and aggression is never the answer. It clouds your mind and judgment. As much as it disgusts me and angers me that Perkins considers gays = nazis/pedophiles/criminals/or anything bad. But i know it won't do to commit violence and the best course of cation would be to proof them wrong which is what i'm doing in my blog and what Jay and Bryan are doing in their blog and youtube videos. There are many others doing this too.

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  6. It is wrong what the shooter did not question, but to try to use that weasel out of the title of Hate Group which is what you actually are is even worse.

    There is no question that the FRC is and has always been a hate group and their target of choice is the gay community. The spread outright lies about the LGBT people and use their influence to do it at the highest most respected levels. That they accepted us to pretend because they put on a nicer facade then other hate groups like the KKK to say they are not a hate group is patiently ridiculousness.

    They are responsible for the anti gay climate that still prevails this country, a climate in which people think that it is OK to attack gay people to beat them up and to kill them for simply being gay. It is the culture that allows parents to throw their kids out of their home for coming out to them and still think and be seen by others as being good parents when in fact they are heartless and have failed miserably at being parents the moment that they throw their child on to the streets/and out of their lives. They make use out to be less then human and not diserving of the same respect and rights that any other humanbeing is due. They create the climate that leads gay youth to the tragic decision of ending their own lives. They have the blood on their hands maybe not directly but because of their actions, of the many LGBT youth that kill them selves (and how many more are out there that never make it into the news) and of LGBT people (and even those suspected of being so) that are beat up and even killed!!

    What else do you call a group other then a hate group that gose over seas and supports laws to kill gay people, and that back home wants the courts to re-criminalize being gay, that works against gay rights and that seeks to turn back the hands of time every chance that it gets? If they where doing the same thing with race they would be called out on it in a heart beat but because they are waging this war against the LGBT they are not called out on it by the powers that be instead even the press has then on as the counter view to that of LGBT equality!! IF they had their way anti sodomy laws would be back on the books and raids of gay bars would be back to, their goal is to ether eradicate us, or to force us back into the closet. Yet when we voice our objection it is an attack on them and an infringement on their freedom of speech and religion!
    I could go on but I won't.

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  7. Love the article and your youtube channel also.

    Honestly, for the first five seconds, I didn't like the article because, I skimmed it and it looked really long and you began with saying that violence is never the answer which is correct, but I was thinking that the later half of this article was going to be biased towards the gay community and you might try to justify or sympathise with the shooter and that is just plain wrong. However, I'm glad that I stand corrected for the next five seconds or so.

    Instead, you went on about the errors in Brown's speech, so I was pleased because what you said reverberated in me. These people really have a way with words and we need people like you to point that out.

    However, the rest of the article was filled with how hateful NOM really is, unlike what Brown claimed. Despite how true it is, the article seems to be subconsciously leaning towards the shooter. Yes, I can clearly see that you have voiced your opinion several times in this article that violence is wrong but when you go on posting pictures of bashed gays and other things, it came across, to me, that you are subconsciously trying to justify what the shooter did. The tone of the article in the middle just didn't sit well with me.

    Then again, overall, I like the article because you nailed it with NOM's agenda and the solid closing argument at the end changes the tone of the article back to what it should be. Kudos to you.

    Btw, clearly you are more eloquent than Jay is but it is always Jay who dominates the youtube (depfox) channel when you're having the couple sessions. Jay speaks most of the time and when you're given a chance to speak out, he jabs in back very quickly and you take a step back to let him finish what he's saying. Personally, I would very much prefer if you have at least half the say in those videos where you both are present.

    I understand that it is Jay's channel; I'm just making a guess here based on your youtube name which is probably an abbreviation of Jay's occupation and surname, Deputy Foxtroff or something like that. However, from the posts here, I can clearly see that you present a better thought out voice/argument in sensitive topics like these so I would very much like to see more of you in your youtube channel. Couple sessions are always great because have differing views from two people makes the video more interesting but I honestly don't mind if you have more solo videos too because honestly, you are an eye candy. ;p

    Jay, if you're reading this, sorry. :)

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    1. Come on, they're both eye candy and they both express themselves in their own unique and great ways. That is why we enjoy them both. I agree with your fear of the bias towards the shooter but read a bit more carefully. Eric, I think you'll see that it is a very balanced piece. Cudos Brian.

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  8. I agree that what the shooter did was wrong and not helpful to us. That is I agree NOW. But I had an entirely different reaction when I first heard of it and a very visceral one. I was at home eating and CNN was on then and, before I heard the details of the shooting—that it was a security guard that got hit and not FRC staff and certainly not Tony Perkins himself—the VERY INSTANT I heard the words “shooting at the Family Research Council,” I INSTANTLY audibly snapped back at the television screen. “Good!” If you’re wondering why I would have that reaction, when my better judgment wasn’t operative at that very moment, all you have to do is look at the gallery of pictures Bryan has provided us of beatings done at the hands of Bible banging fanatics who live for every belch and fart they can manage to get out of their great Imam, Tony Perkins and vermin like him. In this culture war we have now, I can’t help but notice that the majority of the casualties are on our side. So in that “good-judgment free moment” when I exclaimed “Good!” at the TV, it was from a reflexive feeling that it’s high time that our enemy start taking some casualties too. Is this kind of reaction something I’m proud of? Well, no. But I do have a reputation here for unvarnished honesty and I certainly didn’t disappoint on that account here.

    Actually killing Tony Perkins would be an even worse PR blunder for us. But had that actually happened, I wonder how many more among you here actually might have reflexively exclaimed “Good!” at your own TV screens just as I did above when your OWN better judgment was inoperative in that very unguarded moment? If Rick Santorum had become the Republican nominee, became President, started implementing his medieval anti-gay agenda and was subsequently taken out by someone like Floyd Corkins, wouldn’t your initial reflexive reaction be joy? Wouldn’t that be something you celebrate? Something like “Gay Independence Day”—a July 4th celebration specifically for us? Didn’t you feel a sense of satisfaction when Jesse Helms and Jerry Falwell died although maybe you didn’t express it aloud to anyone else? Don’t you think black people in fact will and probably even should celebrate the death of David Duke, whenever that occurs? Wouldn’t you expect the Jews who were liberated by Moses to rejoice at hearing news of the death of Pharaoh, who enslaved them? All I’m saying is that it’s natural and human to rejoice at the passing of a hated, high-profile oppressor who has done great damage to you and your people. Is feeling that way something to be proud of? No. Will your better judgment come back to you once you’ve cooled down? Probably. But in the deepest, darkest crevices of our souls, I think we feel this way, at least initially. I am one who can admit it. Are you?

    Getting back to the FRC and the shooting, I wouldn’t give the FRC a millisecond to breathe and pause at all in endlessly outing them for the hate group they are and the facilitators of assault and murder of gays. The perpetrators of these crimes have their own Usama ben Laden in Tony Perkins. Ben Laden didn’t personally pull triggers any more than Tony Perkins does. But both, by their very presence, inspire others to do it.

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    1. it is perfectly normal and very human to feel this way..and my opinion is very clear below. it is a sad sad thing that people get so self righteous and convinced of their own correctness that they are willing to not only be blind to the truth when it is presented for them to learn but that they are willing to actively create lies to justify their own delusions.

      whats worse is that you then have people like tony perkins who act to profit from and self promote from that tendency..his downfall is and will be from drinking the kool-aid he helps create. no one should help him by making him a martyr. the truth will be a hammer that crushes him and his cause we merely need to be willing to not let him/them hide it.

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    2. I haven’t experienced any bullying since junior high and I have never, ever had a bigot getting lippy directly at me in adulthood. I’ve overheard some conversations between others in which homophobic remarks were being exchanged. Yet, hearing what other gays go through has built up a pretty good rage level in me vicariously. So, provided I wasn’t outnumbered, it wasn’t coming from someone at work who has power over me, or it’s coming from just one person who isn’t that big of a guy, if some homophobic bigot started getting mouthy at me, I may well really verbally blow up at him, giving him a very graphic idea of what I think of him and his kind and what I wouldn’t mind see happening to the likes of him. Just as his gay-electric fence preacher hero has designs for us, I might suggest to the bigot mouthing off to me a little construction project of our own. Build a stadium patterned after the Coliseum in Ancient Rome, give housing to some hungry lions and then toss in some bigots for brunch. :-D That could include but certainly not be limited to Mr. Mouthy I’m talking to, Rev. Worley is it (?), Dan Cathy and a few key Republican presidential candidates for good measure. After these “entrees” have been “attended to” by one of our lionhearted “customer care representatives,” though they’ll take on the texture of “pulled pork,” they can at least have the satisfaction that they’ll retain that classic flavor of Chick-Fil-A, the bigot food of champions! :-D :-D Who knows… after coming on that strong, the bigot who was originally flapping his jowls at me might end up being a little scared of me, which is fine by me. “We’re breaking ground tomorrow. Feel free to come by and check out the worksite!” :-D Yes, I can do black humor too….

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    3. then you'd be the gay nero of the midwest.

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    4. Maybe I should put on my Roman Emperor
      costume, plug in my electric Roman hand-held harp to my fuzz box, wah-wah pedal and stack of Marshall amps and do some really, REALLY bad kareoki. :-D The construction job got bid out to some rapper BTW. M C Culligula I think! :-D I hope no one is taking my little construction idea seriously though. It was intended only as a potential verbal jab to keep in my arsenal for use only in the most extraordinary of circumstances. Really enjoyed the line about "pulled pork" though....

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  9. Brian, have you seen ZJ's new you tube on this subject? It is great. Thanks for your perspective.

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  10. some people need killin', its a sad and undeniable truth. that said, if you're going to be the left hand of God on a matter dont be a moron about it. do not interfere with the right hand and do it as effectively as possible.

    it would be an interesting turn if the whole thing was staged to make the frc a victim. its just too easy a thing and no one got killed (which is good). he took a loaded weapon into a known hate group and opened fire 'at random' into the lobby where he had to have known security guards were present. that is retarded man in action unless it was staged.

    so no i dont understand what this guy was thinking. if your going to kill people then do it; if you are going to take that step make sure that it has value beyond what you do..it is still a life you are taking.

    i understand, in ways most people and most of my friends dont comprehend, the blind rage that may have fueled his ineptitude. there are better ways to do things than what he did. on both sides of the coin.

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    1. A Tony Perkins -- Floyd Corkins conspiracy? Of course, I should have seen it all along! :-D How much did the security guard need to be paid under the table to serve as bait? :-D

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    2. i mean it, why would a gay person/ally have a backpack full of chik-fil-a there is no need to draw that connection, its already there. and that money would be a counter to all the shooter of conscience here would be attempting. they may not have involved the security guard like that the only way stuff like what im talking about works is for as few people to know about it as possible.

      im sure the frc is covering his (the guard's) bills in regards to the shooting if they arent then they are both derelict in their responsibility to their employee and would be overtly showing their true face, at large.

      im a jaded cynic at times and it makes more sense to me that this fiasco of a shooting was staged. im not privy to anything here but it just does not feel 'legitimate' i guess is the way to say it. the 'gays-are-weak' crowds will believe it because it fits with their stereotypes of gays. volunteering at a friendly center does not an activist or gay person make except to the believers in the frc.

      i could be wrong. the guy could really be that stupid/deficient. hes certainly not from texas. not to say we dont have our share or stupid though.

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    3. Hey Tallat,

      Are you here? Have fun on your "Right To Love" night? Did you by chance land a "hotel guest" of your own? :-D Did you get a chance to check out the Manchester bear scene?

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    4. LOL Dave Tallat had a great time in Manchester he stayed with an awesome YouTube friend BEV. He is one of the sweetest nicest young men I have ever had the honer to know. Take a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tzw-zEQsrM

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  11. Yes, I can clearly see that you have voiced your opinion several times in this article that violence is wrong but when you go on posting pictures of bashed gays and other things, it came across, to me, that you are subconsciously trying to justify what the shooter did.

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  12. Scott Patronick was my friend and I miss him dearly. The two men that jumped him and murdered him were given very light sentences. Joshua J. Dalrymple, 28, and Nicholas J. Yerian, 26, recd max sentences of 12 and 14 years. Guess their lives were deemed more valuable than my friend's.

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