This is the first time that either of us has traveled anywhere without the other and have to admit to a few sleepless nights this week. Especially on the first night when all I did was stare at the ceiling and imagine him somewhere over the Atlantic. In order to take our minds off of things I have done my best to fill our days with fun things for the kids to do....bike riding, pool time, movies, visiting family, playdates, and t.v. time cuddled up in our bed....but it still feels as if the time has gone by so slowly. It's ridiculous right?....I mean it's only a week. However, I knew that Jay is having tons of fun. As he uploaded pictures of his adventures to Facebook I say a man who I haven't seen in a very long time....vibrant and alive with a twinkle in his eye. I remembered him from long ago when we didn't have a house under water, a stack of bills to pay, and more responsibilities than we can sometimes manage. It made me smile to see him again. And yet..this week has left me feeling like the steward of a ship with no captain.
People asked me lots of questions about how I was going to hold up on my own for the week managing the kids by myself? As if the workload will somehow magically double and the kids become too much to handle alone. "We will be fine" is my polite answer but inside I am wondering how they think I get along everyday anyway? Jay often works nights and evenings and sometimes sixteen hour shifts that see him leave at four in the morning and returning at midnight. It's already my everyday job to take care of the house and kids on my own.
But on those days I always know that at night, jay is going to curl up next to me and when I wake up in the morning he will be there. It's funny how you can be dead asleep but yet your body will wake you up at three AM because it knows that something important has not happened that was supposed to...like that empty space in the bed that stayed empty tonight.
But the oddest question that I have gotten about Jays time away was often not posed to me as a question at all. In mentioning to people in my life that Jay was going away to Turkey they would often get very curious about why he was going there and why he was going alone. Simply explaining that he was going to "support a friend" we met though Youtube never seems to be an adequate explanation. The unspoken question being why is my husband overseas with another man who to them seems a stranger. To which I then feel compelled to explain the sequence of events that has taken place in our friend Tallats life. How he was outed to his family, intimidated, assaulted, and nearly killed because of it...and all because he was merely seen to be friends with us on Facebook.
What takes me aback is that even after explaining all of this to someone I will still get a look that includes raised eyebrows as if even those events are not enough to warrant a plane flight to the other side of the world. It bothers me a bit that people still view the friendships with people we make online as if they are somehow suspect or less than a connection you would make with a person who lives nearby? I keep asking myself if it is too many differences for people to accept? Another country, another side of the world, another religion away and suddenly it's all to strange to be relatable?
But what people don't get is that if someone sent them a letter saying "I didn't kill myself because you helped me find hope...how would they not have trouble wiping the tears from their eyes. And then to discover that the person reaching out to you is one of the kindest, gentlest people builds a stronger connection and so you start talking to each other. You get to know each others lives, families, and struggles until you start to forget that they live half a world away...they might as well live at the end of your street. You become friends and then maybe find ways to spend time together....perhaps video gaming online or skyping. And then some bad happens like when Tallat was shot and all I could do was sit impotently by filled with rage and fear waiting for someone to contact us and let us know if he was alive or dead. He wasn't some humanitarian effort...he was our friend, he was in trouble, and sitting behind a computer screen was maddening when all we wanted to do was race to a hospital to make sure he was ok. Today, I am kind of regretting my decision not to go with Jay because one day when I do meet Tallat I want to give him such a big hug that it will crack ribs...and then I will probably cuff him upside his head for a few things too.
So, when family or friends look like they don't get it I wonder what it is that seems so strange to them. I believe that if it was them having those experiences that they would be boarding the next plane to Istanbul too...and urging the pilot to hurry it the hell up. If we can't realize that the distinctions we draw between each other count for absolutely nothing...whether it's gay/straight, race, religion, gender, age, culture...than we have such a long way to go to ever see the world as we hope it to be. We drew the lines between "us" and "them" we can undraw them dammit. I know it's not really that simple...but neither is it that hard. The internet has gone a long way to helping us undraw those lines by letting talk to people we might never have had the chance to meet, sometimes be entertained, sometimes cry, and sometimes lose out hearts to them. It's only human.
Very soon Jay will be boarding another plane to travel an entire day to come home to us. I will spend one more sleepless night imagining him somewhere over the Atlantic and he will probably be excited to go home and sad to leave the time he had with Tallat in Turkey behind. I know I would be. And Tallat himself will probably be in tears and wondering what life will be bringing him next not knowing that his adventure is only just beginning and that there will be more times and memories to make that he would never want to be without. He is a part of our hearts and a part of our family and he can count on that.
This post is for Turks and Travelers because it is for them. My heart and prayers are with both of them tonight and I wish them safe travels and I look forward to wrapping Jay up in a big hug and never letting him go again though I would never have taken this experience away from him for what it gave to both him and Tallat. But journeys are like that, you step out your door...or onto the internet...and you never know where your steps will take you. Thanks for taking this journey with me.
Until next time dear readers....
you guys are just so wonderful! I can just picture it Bryan, just having sleepless nights, wondering about Jay. Yep.ReplyDelete
I've always thought its strange that people only care about people within a certain distance. It's alright if people are suffering if it's a long way away. In this age due to plane travel, we are only 14 hours away from the nearest famine or war. When you know that how are we not supposed to care?. For example, there's this family in America...HxxReplyDelete
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
I could't agree with you more Bryan! I think that the internet is one of the greatest invents in the human history. The way that it allow us to connect with people from anywhere in the world, like I'm an doing right now, its simply amazing! I think that that's the reason why the world is changing for the better, in many aspects, so fast. We can communicate and unite forces with people from all around the world, much faster and with more "humanity" like never before. We can see and hear each other, and even if we don't, we can communicate just with words, but in real time. All this make that the connections that we make with persons that are so away physically feels so real, cause we are just talking from human being to human being. Also, this amazing toll allows people with a purpose, like you and Jay, to inspire and encourage people in the whole world just by yours example. People like me. How could i ever know that yours life style was possible if wasn't by the internet? I still haven't see a family like yours here, one that i can get to know so much about. Here in Brasil we haven't even had the first gay kiss in the TV! We had gay stories, but the gay kiss is a huge taboo yet. In my family then is even harder. My family is very religious. Our church is a little bit more rational about homosexuality. They understand that is something that is in our inner being, that we cant be changed, that we have no "fault" for being gay and feel what we feel. They say that is nothing wrong in being gay, since we don't "practice" the homosexuality. If we want we can marry a girl, if don't we have to live alone for the rest of our lives, cause the practice of the homosexuality is unacceptable. Its something wrong and nocuous, harmful, injurious, hurtful, wrongful, foul, promiscuous. U got the picture. I always felt this way, and i still feel somehow, cause I had "practiced" homosexuality. Hidden, of course. And i was promiscuous. So i always felt wrong. I felt like someday and somehow i would have to stop being gay, or, if that wasn't possible, stop practicing, so i could be saved, mean go to heaven, when Jesus come back in the clouds and stuff. With time and with more knowledge I could be able accept my self as I am. I know now that me being who I am is some how the will of God, and i know He have a purpose for me. I know that some how i will make some difference in the world. I just dont know how yet. But see you guys sooo in love, with this so truthful and pure love, makes see hope, makes me seek for hope. Its all i want, love and be loved. I cant expend the rest of my life alone. I just cant. Thank you, Jay and Bryan, for give me hope every day!ReplyDelete
all blessings in love to you. be comforted and made whole. the world is full of life and love and it is just waiting for you. as a child of him that made all things blessed are you, be fearless(but not stupid) for you journey not alone but upon the shoulders of a mighty and caring creator.Delete
it is said that we have no idea of heaven, no comprehension of it. the God of the universe is far bigger than any mortal idea and her love is equally beyond our full comprehension. live learn and be free to love yourself, that love is right in front of you. ready for you to take it in and be more whole than you have ever known.
(whether they intend or not jay and bryan are very good at comforting and it is appreciated - ty)
That’s really beautiful. It’s like you summoned forth your inner poet.
Come to think of it, this Samuel Germano is kinda hot. If I passed him a grocery store, I would definitely notice him. I’d date him in a heartbeat. Too bad he’s so far away (in Brazil)…Damn…. :=)
hmmmm..travel options perhaps? lol i dont know their stance on gay issues but.. you never know.Delete
i am a poet. not a great one by any means. a Rx friend(fmr) is an amazing poet...i has copies. unfortunately i am under word-bond to not publish, so i cant share.
i am also a crappy musician but everyone starts out sucking, im just lingering in the suckage.
Sam was saying they haven't even had the first gay kiss on tv yet in Brazil. I'll catch a flight down there, but it's his job to call in a film crew so they can use ours on the news. We better both be well-stocked on breath mints because I go deep for these kinds of things! :-DDelete
So you're a poet? Are you by chance into Jim Morrison (I am the Lizard King...I can do anything)? He was the lead vocalist for The Doors back in the 60's.
ive only read a smattering, i know im out there sometimes (more than that really but meh) but he has been on another wavelength. i have not been grabbed by much of his stuff, not for any duration anyway but im not outright opposed.Delete
Wow, tnx for the kind words steeldrago. I do believe that love is just about to find me, and i'm anxiously waiting for it!Delete
And WOW, u made me blush Dave! >.> hehe
If u want u can add me on facebook ;) - https://www.facebook.com/samuelhenriquegermano
Btw the gay kiss that didn't happened here yet is in the soap operas that are very popular here and have a huge cultural influence. But that's just because the TV channels are really hypocrites. Otherwise we don't much gay issues here, as u may know we have one of the biggest gay pride parades in the world, that had its 16º edition yesterday.
So, if u want catch a flight and come here you will be more than welcome! hehe
Hmmm.... Guess I have a date then! If this keeps up around here, we're going to put eharmony.com out of business. :-D :-D Sam, eharmony.com is a major American dating website; I really you wouldn't have any reason to know that when you're from Brazil.Delete
You have one of the world's biggest Pride parades and it was yesterday? Did you go?
Well, good luck to you Sam. I hope love does find you and soon. I would think you have pretty decent prospects. You certainly have the looks and are surely are getting noticed. Just be yourself and give them a big wide smile and guys will just melt at your feet.
You have a chance to see Bryan and Jay’s film The Right To Love in a theater in Rio early July! It’ll be available on DVD sometime, but it feels so much more special seeing it in a theater with your fellow gay brothers and sisters. I should know; I saw it myself 2 weeks ago and had the time of my life. I posted an account of my experiences then and, if you’re interested, you can read what all happened to me in the comments of the last blog topic (foster diaries). Doing an edit>find search for “Kansas City” should jump you down the page right to my comments. After the movie, if you go to the right places and use what I presume is a gorgeous smile on people, you may get “lucky” too.
For movie times, go to www.r2lmovie.com, click “Screening” and follow the Rio link.
Lol Dave i really don't know eharmony.com, but i do have a account on manhunt.com :D Do u know that one?Delete
About the pride parade it happens a bit far from where i live, its about 600 miles here to there. I live in Brasília, Distrito Federal, that's like yours Washington DC, and the pride parade is in São Paulo, ours biggest city.
About the film i would LOVE to see it in Rio, but the city is even further than São Paulo. I would love just travel to Rio, never been there, its a amazing city, but i cant afford a trip there... I hope they show the film here in Brasilia, we usually have a LGBT film festival here in the end of the year.
Well, like I said before, you’ll be able to get your own DVD copy eventually. Probably will be available sometime this summer. If you go that route, try to watch it on a fullsize TV and not on a laptop. Laptops can have loud exhaust fans which can make hearing difficult if you don’t also have exterior speakers. As far as your LGBT film festival in Brasilia, this film just doesn’t fall out of the sky into their lap. The festival might have to contact r2lmovie.com with a request to host a screening. And that might not happen unless you and others speak up to your film festival people and urge them to obtain the film.Delete
Well, like i said i hope they are planing to show the film. I will try to contact the producers of the festival and check if they are planing, and if they don't i will definitely URGE them to do so! :DDelete
it is far easier to believe one can rely on those physically present in one's life, even when you know that is a fallacy. it is difficult to believe that a virtual 'friend' who may as well be a stranger or at worst a complete fraud could be or do anything to genuinely support you.ReplyDelete
research, however, (unfortunately i cannot be more specific but i do know who to ask) has shown that people are genuinely connecting with others through gaming and other virtual outlets. it makes sense when you realize that the people who are physically present may be no less unavailable and in fact all of the reality we perceive is virtual, in your brain.
so yeah, its not at all strange for one to do these things for those they will do them for. what is strange is that most people wont do these things for anyone.
i am bad about distance and when people acted to communicate that they were ready to part from my life- or their parents did for them, i allowed it- after i reached out repeatedly trying to make it work. what else can you do? if someone tells you in countless small ways or even major-threaten your life- ways that you are no longer welcome then what do you do but let them walk away even if that means you are the one doing the walking. the fickle nature of man.
i realize, now, why i so uncharacteristically (in addition to my aforementioned issues) felt safe in sharing what i have-not here. that is not me normally. you got to see my crazy (at its worst) first sorry, sort of. you are good people and i thank you for the healing that i did not know i was still needing. i am better now and the socialization was much needed. one tends to go barmier without it.
blessed be, in all things.
The Internet makes the world profoundly smaller and, depending how much you let yourself be natural and open online, friendships formed there feel just as real as in person. If, after you got that essentially “thank you for saving my life” message from him, you did start Skyping with him, of course you all grew even more attached to each other. How could it be otherwise? Skype really makes physical distance fall away, and that distance doesn’t reassert itself until it gets ahold of you in your plane seat and in your wallet. Even religion isn’t much of a barrier as long as no one is trying to force his on another.ReplyDelete
Of course you went to Tallat. You are his family now—that is, the only family worth having now—and he loves you and needs you. And, especially when your kids are young, all of you going would just scream “gay family” and that just ain’t gonna fly in a Muslim country, so having only one go was the only safe option.
Returning to barriers, the one that for me personally is the hardest to bridge is the gay/straight dichotomy. Even though I’ve dealt with straights my entire life, as we all have, I’ve noticed that the more time I spend here talking to “my own people,” the more internally unpleasant it feels for me dealing with straights and I’m sensing a reduced resolve to even try. Don’t misunderstand me, I still outwardly deal with such people just as before and with no detectable differences in anyone’s eyes, but I am feeling changes in my inner world with respect to them. I’m growing tired of feeling I need to wall off parts of myself from others in the physical world when I’m so open here and increasingly used to having the freedom to be that open.
When I meet new people who I sense are straight, I automatically start wondering to myself, “Are you a homophobic, bigoted caveman too? I place the burden on you to prove you’re otherwise.” And, if we become friends, it’s likely to be relatively superficial because there are fundamental parts of me I’m keeping from you and, to make it deeper, I have to risk destroying it entirely by “coming out” to you. Sometimes I find having a hole in the head more useful. And the more I read things like joe.my.god.blogspot, I’m catching myself increasingly perceiving such people as issues or potential adversaries (depending on what parts of me I share with them) and less like just regular people. I’ve always been gay. But does this mean I’m morphing into a militant too? I wonder….
hey dave, previous tangent. i finally listened to ozzrics tentacles. it was good, its techno enough that i have to be cautious. when im in the mood for instrumental they are on my list now. i tend to like vocals more but there aint no thing wrong with a great instrumental.Delete
i joined bearcentral, its nice. i had tossed it before because of other similar sites( i have lost count of the number of sites i have joined- and i dont recall them all) and i have noticed that the chat issue has changed for me. who knew. im relearning/rediscovering stuff all the time-ish.
Glad you liked the Ozrics. They use techno sometimes for additional flavor, but are not heavily that way. But mixing Middle Eastern and reggae influences in the same song and in the coolest, trippiest way imaginable is very characteristic of them. I’m thinking of compiling a new batch of musical links, which will be a variety of artists this time. Expect it to be more hallucinogenic munchies for your ears.
I really like bearcentral but I’m still at the lurking stage. I need to get some camera issues sorted out before joining here (or anywhere) and posting a profile will do me any good.
I am aware BTW your real name is Brian but, with two Brians here (of variant spellings), I think we need to stick with Steeldrago for you to keep the confusion down. Occasionally, some folks misspell Bryan's name.
More aural hallucinogens for hungry ears and parched brain cells….Delete
“Tantra Asan” / Lamp of the Universe / from The Cosmic Union (2001)
“Introspection” / The End / from Introspection (UK 1969)
“People I Once Knew” / Stone Circus / from Stone Circus (US 1969)
“Places Of Light” / Brainticket / from Cottonwoodhill (Switzerland (?) 1971)
“Eye-Shaking King” / Amon Duul II / from Yeti (Germany 1970)
“Stain on the Sun” / The Bevis Frond (Live 2004)
“My God” / Jethro Tull / Isle of Wight performance (UK 1970)
“Mind Flowers” / Ultimate Spinach / from Behold and See (US 1968)
“Villanova Junction” / Jimi Hendrix / Woodstock performance (1969)
“Voodoo Child (Slight Return)” / Jimi Hendrix / Woodstock performance (1969)
“Ball and Chain” / Janis Joplin live in Germany (1969)
“Samba Pa Ti” / Santana / live from Croatia 10-18-98
“Coily” / Ozric Tentacles / from Waterfall Cities (UK 1999)
“The Prophet Am I” / The Spacious Mind / from Mind of a Brother (Sweden 1999)
“Feeling” / Lightshine / from Feeling (Germany 1974)
“Machine Gun (Cover Jam) / Excellent interpretation of Hendrix’s Machine Gun. If I ever learn to play, I want to sound exactly like this.
“First Communication” / Agitation Free / from Second (Germany 1973)
“Mandrake Root” / Deep Purple / Live in Bilzen, Belgium 1969)
i actually prefer 'steeldrago' online. i shared that info as an amusement, cause you know his name is misspelled. (lolz- or v.v.) on bearcentral it uses my name in the chat which squiggs me so.Delete
i have many names, asshole, ass, traitor- once(my brother was being a douche), david-jess-brian-kyla-whichever you are!, that scruffy guy, hippie-though im not(i believe in bathing w/product), fag-my friend was trying to pic and pissed me off instead, that gay dude. and a few others, im sure ill add more, and that crazy texan or perhaps texas(though i cant claim to speak for us all let alone represent us all). weirdo(i have decided to get a tat of gonzo in leather gear), goofy. i have been mighty mouse for awhile, i may not save lives in the traditional sense and i may be a bit slow at the job but i tend to come in just when im needed, so i frequently said 'here i come to save the daay!'. in some ways i still am.
So-called "hippies" don't have to be soap-impaired. It's okay to let you freak flag fly, man. Really, it is.... :-DDelete
o, i do. seriously...i frequently encourage others to do the same.Delete
the conspiracy theorist in me believes that the government is both tracking and controlling us in some strange algorythmic way through these damn captchas... through some neuro algorithmic process. but hes crazy as a loon so i dont listen to him much...Delete
actually i dont. the few times ive had any exposure to anything illicit, it was not awesome. while i have no problem with mind alteration, when it is approached respectfully and spiritually. i have historically not needed them to do what i do. i have a schizotypal interaction with the world at large, i dont have shcizophrenia (i did want to convince my highschool senior english prof that i was a paranoid schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur-unfortunately the golf-ball tumor in her head made her crazier than i could pretend) or any other diagnosed/undiagnosed conditions but i am a textbook definition of 'mystic.' we are allowed the leeway to be unstable compared to the rest of the world. besides we are all crazy somehow, even if it manifests as hyper-ridgid sanity. my 'crazy' is usually harmless and fun. unfortunately, i now understand why my life-line splits.
Got a juicy chemical story for you from my colorful past. Back as an 18-year-old in the late 70’s—when things were way more stoned than now—finals week for my first semester in college was almost over and I was done except for having to lead a discussion panel on the last day. The preceding night, some friends and I did some chocolate mescaline. Mescaline is the synthetic form of peyote and is something which is weaker than LSD. Although I didn’t have so much to get a clean liftoff and therefore have the full menu of typical effects—patterns of undulating and dripping colors, objects morphing/melting/reconstituting themselves, telepathy, past-life regression, slowing or stoppage of time, depersonalization, and living spiritual entities from another dimension entering my body and singing archipelago out of my ass :-D —I had an interesting parting hallucination right in the middle of my last final the following morning as I was leading our panel and was in the middle of reading an index card aloud. The sound of my own voice abruptly disappeared and was replaced by a garbled multi-layering of AM radio-type static, Jimi Hendrix-like feedback squeals a la “The Star Spangled Banner” and voices in reverse like the backtracking voices heard on “And The Gods Made Love” from Electric Ladyland (Hendrix)! I could have freaked, but I didn’t and just kept on reading aloud through the auditory hallucination and just hoped that I sounded okay. It turned just fine. THAT was a really close call.Delete
It could have gone so much worse. For example, the words I was reading from the index card could have melted, liquefied and dribbled onto my shoe! :-D Holy Hallucination, Batman! :-D (That one was for you, Bryan. Hope you’re enjoying this too!) If that had happened, I might have been down on the floor on all fours trying to recover the spilled letters. “Excuse me, Miss. I need that vowel laying there right next to your shoe!” :-D :-D I must have looked really strung out that morning. I remember my professor saying, “Dave, you look…ehem……………………………..DIFFERENT this morning! :-D Now most people would keep their trap shut at this point. And then there’s me…. Mr. Impulse Control :-D :-D I said, “I FEEL different too. Partied most of the night. Not too much sleep.” So, you see, all my bad habits of outing myself here in different ways got started way back then! :-) I could no better control my mouth while hallucinating during finals than I can now from making untoward remarks during a certain movie playing at a Kansas City theater. “Spell f*******!” :-D :-D (Hint: the “f” activity is what gay guys should get Gardasil vaccinations for! :-D )
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
Bryan I have gotten those looks too when I say "he's somebody I know from the internet". That being said I am also one who keeps his distance with internet friends. Partially because I feel comfortable that way, partially because no one I correspond with has been particularly effusive.ReplyDelete
I also think since Jay went alone, people project their own relationship fears onto yours. We are all a little insecure.
I'm sorry you had some sleepless nights, but in a way I'm glad too. Think of it as an affirmation of your feelings for Jay. The next time he is driving you nuts about another project for the house, remember how you feel about that body next to you when you awake in the middle of the night. :)
As an FYI, on Youtube I am Onyxman8 of the "infamous Bryan whipped out hislightsaber" comment. Also my partner and I were excited to be in DaveyWavey's video with you. We were the 24 year couple.
As often, I will part saying, you guys are angels on Earth, :)
wow how very special and isn't nice that Jay will go and to another country far far away to show support to a young gay man. Young gay men rule !!!! I guess next time when there is a gay man in distress well it would be a young gay man then Jay will jump on plane fly to another country leave the kids at home with his enabler husband and spend some "friend" time with a young gay man...how very nice of himReplyDelete
You know I feel really sorry for people like yourself that see nothing in the world but rot and bad intentions...I had the week of my life with a very special young man who looks up to me as a rolemodel and hopefully his future. He credits me with saving his life and I credit him for making me understand how special life is. I hope someday you can find peace in your life but it will have to start with the way you look at the world until then you are just lost.Delete
* role model not rolemodel (#two words)Delete
Tallat is a lucky man to have such loyal and devoted friends.ReplyDelete
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
in paganism there is the law of three, it basically suggests that what you put out is returned to you multiplied. similar to the 'reap as you sow'Delete
I think there are additional factor at work beyond having met on the internet. A lot of people are reluctant to get tangled up in the messy lives of others--they worry that they'll end up with a responsibility they don't really want. You know...you might have a friendly, but somewhat distant, association with an elderly neighbor. You know they're lonely and there's a moment when you have to decide whether to invite them to dinner or a barbecue and actually develop a relationship with them or keep the distance comfortable and demand-free.ReplyDelete
One of the gifts that you and Jay bring to the world is that you go "all in" with the people you meet. If there's need, you're there, supporting however you can--whether it means taking in 3 more children or flying to the other side of the world. As an example, it can be tremendously inspiring to the people who lean in that direction themselves, but I imagine that it is also very threatening to people who lean more toward protecting themselves.
Loving isn't a safe activity. It can't be done without risk. You guys do a great job taking that risk and sharing the rewards with all of us! Kudos!
When you love you get back ten times the love you gave out....Its an amazing world we live in full of amazing people. Thanks for the sweet wordsDelete
Jay is so right. Less fear = more love. Amen.Delete
I understand the feeling ... over 6 years ago I had the pleasure of seeing "Brokeback Mountain" and something in that movie sparked in my a search, that have happened further back in time I do not know if I could do it. The point is that thanks to that search, I found wonderful friends, but one was more than all, he was the one who suddenly became part of my family, my friends, my life ... he was and is part of myself. His name is Fernando, he lives in Spain and I could never embrace... yet... because I live in Argentina! But it is as if he lived in the next block, he is in everything I do, I share every detail of my life with him and he with me. The feeling we call "more than love" because it is out of scale, name, everything. Because Fernando is in my life at last reached a state of peace, for example, I am "more" in my relationship with my husband, Ariel, who though at first did not understand what all this would eventually realized that this feeling did not interfere with our relationship, however, I was more full! I do not know if ever, Fernando or me, we crossed the big pond and to melt into a hug ... but the feeling is here ... forever.ReplyDelete
I think folks who are not as accustomed to building relationships online don't believe it is real. It may be part of the fear of the unknown. I get strange looks when I talk about how excited I am for a friend and I get asked how we met and I say online. But yes, they're still a real friend... You and Jay and the kids aren't random online robots either.ReplyDelete
God bless you all for the work you do. It is so important. I adore and look up to you two. I had an experience at Boston pride this weekend, when I was looking at the information for the Association of Older Lesbians, and a nice woman looked me in the eye, smiled and said, "we are your future". It was such an incredible feeling. So I can only imagine how amazing it must have been for Tallat to have you there.
Thanks for sharing your experience on the home front while Jay was traveling.
I've said it before- and I'll say it again. You guys are an incredible inspiration! Thank you for all that you do. The world needs more caring people such as yourselves!ReplyDelete
Government tracking, eh? I was wondering what that "666" logo was on my new tattoo. The mark of the Republican/beast/whatever!! :-D Just kidding; I don't have any tats.ReplyDelete
Jay just posted another video of him in a whole bunch of mosques. He went to a turkish bath and then the video ended with him toking up on a huka! Did you see that? Too bad there wasn't any hashish in the huka so we could watch Jay get the giggles! :-D :-D And, yes, I know from experience it has that effect. Really changes the texture of music too. Makes it really smooth and liquidy. I have a hunch though you already knew that. I can't imagine why.... :-D :-D
Oops. I put this comment in the wrong place. And I don't know how to delete it or move it.Delete
The huka comment was meant for you. I meant to insert as a reply to your Jim Morrison reference but, when I forgot to click "reply" first, it got posted in the wrong place.
so i finally listened to the vid. amazing song.ReplyDelete
Are you talking about the "Machine Gun" cover jam? Yes, that one really is awesome.Delete
One thing I love about Jimi is he never played the same song in the same way in concert. Over the years, I've absorbed so much music that it's oozing out of my pores. Many people whistle but, when they do, it's just the basic melody of whatever song. When I do it, I'm jamming. And my "solos" are never exactly like what's on the CD. I improvise and do it in a way where it still makes musical sense. People who have heard me doing that while a song is playing have commented that what I'm doing fits the song.
I really do need to learn to play. If I can ever express on guitar the madness playing in my head, I would be frightening as a performer and I would have myself a new career. Jimi is my biggest influence but, by now, you probably could have guessed that.
sry, no. the one bryan posted. youve got quite a list and while i spend many hours online i still dont have that much time..i will hit them piece by piece though.Delete
In the Turkey Part 2 "Blue Mosque & St Sophia" video, we finally get a glimpse at a smile on Tallat at 4:51. OMG… Anyone who doesn’t find that hot should seek professional help and move up that eye exam of theirs on their calendars! :-D
A few questions about his throat cancer though…. If you’ve been told:
1. Does he have pain from it?
2. Is the cancer of a type that’s treatable and can he have a normal life expectancy?
3. Does he have any idea how he got it?
There is a Youtube channel called “thehealthybear”—an Australian doctor who treats gay patients—and he said there’s a significant uptick in neck (and maybe throat(?) ) cancers in gay men and the vast majority of those patients have been testing positive for the Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) from semen getting in the mouth. This doctor advocates that such gay men get the Gardasil (anti-HPV) vaccine if they’re going to have unprotected oral sex. Gardasil, as you may know, was originally intended for young girls who normally would acquire HPV a bit further south. Gardasil is an expensive vaccine, he says, and probably not covered by insurance--especially for a guy--but he says get it anyway.
By mentioning the HPV / Gardasil stuff, I am in no way suggesting that Tallat got his throat cancer that way. Due to his shyness and other cultural issues, I am assuming Tallat has had little or no “action” so far and, therefore, certainly would NOT have gotten his cancer that way. I, of course, wouldn’t wish that kind of cancer on anyone, but it’s especially heartbreaking to have someone who seems that sweet and adorable get this.
Moving on… I’ve noticed how good Jay is with a camera in this video. He doesn’t erratically dart around inside the mosques. He paces himself very methodically and slowly—almost like a movie director—so we can really take in what’s there to see. I wonder if maybe he majored in film while in college. Or maybe in drafting or something like that. In some of the home improvement projects I’ve seen of his, particularly in the backward, it’s really obvious what a good eye he has for that sort of thing.
i absolutely agree with you. tallat has an amazing smile, his whole person changes for the awesome.Delete
having survived my dad's cancer, im sure it has its affects. being in the throat there are probably days he cant talk.treatments vary depending on the kind of cancer, the location, the options available financially. and finally the dignity he has to live or die as he chooses based on the outcome of that cancer. -just typing the word kind of fills me w/rage even now but im too sick to give it more than a passing 'eh.'
btw, bryan, if tallat needs financial assistance, while i cannot offer much what i can give is freely shared, and its going to count for even less being in england. the good news is he has state of the art healthcare available there.
Financial assistance? Oh shit! His family trying to kill him also means that he's cut off from funding for his treatment unless he has insurance of his own that he can pay for himself! And who knows if that insurance, presumably obtained in Turkey, would be honored in the UK. And what eligibility would a foreign national have for coverage under the UK's socialized health care coverage? Must such a foreign national have permanent residency there to get coverage? What happens to a student who might return to his native country?Delete
Bryan, does Tallat need help from us?
Trying to connect some dots here.... I recall in Jay's annotations to his mosque video something about the two of them laughing and crying together. If one of the issues they cried together about was Tallat's cancer, what might that say about his prognosis?Delete
Back trying to connect some more dots.... Come to think of it, anytime I have ever heard Tallat speak, his voice has always been super soft and rather hard to hear. I'm not so sure now that the excessive quietness is all about shyness. I wonder if it physically hurts him, due to the throat cancer, to fully power his voice so that it would be as audible and understandable as anyone else's? I don't hear scratchiness or a gravel-ly sound in his voice though.Delete
being experience w/ the whole cancer thing...dont speculate. that makes everything worse. im sure that if tallat is willing to share jay and bryan will let us know. if he is not then we must respect that call. im mean would you want that many complete strangers knowing your bizness? especially considering thats all they would want to talk about, not school, not his other interests. it is cancer all the time for him anyway, why add the morbid curiosity of random strangers regardless of their intent. and he will certainly be all over the map emotionally some days too and that curiosity could make things really bad for him on those bad days.Delete
Hi all My friend is dealing with Throat Cancer and a Brain Tumer in his head. He underwent Chemo in Turkey and is now looking for treatment in the UK he needs to have surgery on the Tumer in his head and it has caused him pain and nose bleeds. Dave Talats Cancer wasnt caused by the HPV Virus he is still a virgin and we are unsure how the cancer came to be we think it might have been caused by his fathers smoking habbit a few cartons a day. Talats mothers passed away last year from cancer also so there might be a connection. As for Financial help he does need the help in an exstreme way but will not take any money from me. He says I have already given him more then he has ever asked. It frustrates me to no end that he will not accept my help.Delete
This is the first time I’ve knowingly talked to you. Yes, I instinctively knew Tallat would be a virgin and certainly wouldn’t have gotten his cancer from HPV. If you read much of me here, you know how prone I am to go off on tangents (and how silly I can get). My HPV / Gardasil references were intended for general consumption for the rest of us where it could have real relevance, but obviously not for Tallat. He has a brain tumor too? Oh no…. Why do such horrible things always happen to the good guys? My heart just breaks for him and I wish I could give him a big hug too. If he won’t accept financial help from you, what chance is there that he would accept it from the rest of us? How then is he not just plain screwed? I have a feeling his past suicide attempt(s?) were about more than just being gay and misconceptions of what that has to mean for his life; probably was equally about the cancer issues too.
Any smoking (okay, okay... more accurately toking :-D ) I’ve ever done was only for a brief period (1 1/2 years) and, although I grew up in a household with a smoker, my mother always blew her smoke up the kitchen island fan and wouldn’t just smoke anywhere, so my exposure to secondhand smoke was never as extensive as Tallat’s. And I’m certainly not suffering any ill effects from either my past smoking or being around anybody else’s smoke.
Somewhere on this thread is a story from my life when I was younger that should give you the giggles. This was part of a conversation I was having with Steeldrago. An Edit>Find search for the word “chemical” will jump you to the right location. Enjoy. I know other people here like the crazy stuff I do here but, so far, I’ve never been able to tell whether my style of humor works on you and Bryan too. The things I do here have always been as much intended for your own enjoyment as anyone else’s.
BTW the spelling reference is about the part in The Right To Love when rightwing douchebags were concerned what their kids would be learning in school, including new naughty gay-themed words to spell. So I spontaneously made an audible new spelling word suggestion that drew laughter from others sitting near me in the theater.
sounds like a bit of subterfuge may be called for. is there and organization that he is using? perhaps we could go through them. that and/or outright you have no option we are giving this to you. a number of them as far as i know accept donations for individuals and i think they will even keep it confidential if needed. i could be wrong, my mom and i did the majority ourselves.Delete
cause you know sometimes that is what family does. or at least shouldDelete
If you are lurking here—and I have no doubt you can figure out how to get here—we want to help you. I know it hurts your pride to accept help but, if the stakes medically are simply too high, you may need to anyway. At a time when you need your (biological) family’s support the most, they have abandoned you (and worse as we all now understand). We are your family now. We love you and any help you might receive from us would be given out of love and not pity. I hope that is a difference that’s meaningful to you.
Dave & steeldrago, I'm totally in if you guys set something up. :)Delete
And Tallat, if you're reading... you have a huge network of friends/family right here to tap into. Friends and family help each other. Plus, if we all helped you just a small amount, it would add up to an overall much larger amount! No harm, no worries to any single person. We're all stronger when we work together. Let us work with you (not for you). Sending you positive vibes, and wishes of peace.
I’m kind of a techie caveman, so I wouldn’t know how to go about setting up something like this. Would it be a credit card-based Paypal situation—and Paypal is something I have never used before—or would money orders or cashier’s checks also be a possibility? I would think simply sending an out-of-town conventional check of the type we all write at home might not be acceptable but, then again, I don’t know. Someone else would need to set it up but, if they do, I’d willing to participate.Delete
I’m no expert on UK healthcare but the rumors we hear here in the U.S. are about rationed care and long waits. Whether someone with a more serious condition gets fast-tracked or is allow to “cut” in line is something I know nothing about. And if Tallat CAN get his surgery this summer, he might not be recovered well enough to catch the August 23rd screening of The Right To Love in Manchester. Oh well, his healthcare is more important, but I was hoping he’d get a chance to see it in the theater rather than having to settle for a DVD to watch at home.Delete
You know, in a way I wonder if seeing The Right To Love might make him feel even worse on the gay issue in the sense that it could have the effect of rubbing his nose in what he can never have if he continues living in a Muslim country. The chances of marriage equality or any relationship recognition in a Muslim country are probably forever zero. LGBT people there are treated with a cruelty level far worse than the U.S. and trying to deal with a heterosexual Muslim who’s badly misinformed on the basis of gay sexual orientation probably would be like dealing with a Rick Santorum-styled rabid rightwing Republican on acid. Tallat would be so much happier if he leaves the Middle East and never returns.
Today I just had the strangest experience with someone in my apartment complex who obviously got me confused with someone else in my building and I ended up improvising on the spot for reasons you’ll understand in just a moment. A little background, this guy lives a couple entry doors down from me and is someone I see rarely, but we are on friendly terms and we happen to remember each other’s first names, but we don’t spend any time together. He also has a 4 year old daughter so, presumably, he’s straight. I had just gotten back from the grocery store and he was taking a whole bunch of boxes to the dumpster located directly across from my own building entry. We said hello to each other, and the following is our conversation, which got progressively weirder (and funnier).Delete
Him: I’m doing some spring/summer cleaning because my girlfriend’s work schedule changed to a graveyard-type shift and can’t do it herself.
Me: Sounds like fun. I’m glad I’m not to be doing it.
Him: So where’s your girlfriend?
Me: (Thinking) WTF?!?! (Remember, folks, I’m gay but he doesn’t know that.)
Me: Uhh………..we broke up. :-D
Him: I thought I saw you some time ago with a blond.
Me: (Thinking again…) This can’t be happening…. :-D :-D
Me: (improvising again…) That wasn’t her.
Him: Girlfriends are really something, aren’t they?
Me: (Still more improvising…) They sure are! :-D
Him: I’ve been with my girlfriend for 11 years. If I don’t have a drink every night, I feel like strangling her.
Me: Well, you better drink up then! :-D :-D :-D
END OF CONVERSATION
Notice in this comedy of errors that I DIDN’T set him straight and come out to him. I thought, “what the hell for?” Under similar hilarious circumstances, would you?
ummmm... dude he needs a buddy... hes strangling in girl and he may be ready to move on with his life but feel overly obligated by the kid(to her mom, not possible to be overly obligated to your progeny, unhealthily so yes though). im not saying fuck him, im saying be his friend. he obviously desperately needs some stupid guy time. yeah you may have him be yet one more straight 'friend' but it may work out where he is someone you can really trust- i trust you to be able to id the difference.Delete
to answer your question, if i was worried about losing everything, no, if i was safe, absolutely yes
I guess, Steeldrago, I’m more selective in who I come out to than you are. No, I don’t have anything specific to lose if I tell him, but I’m not seeing anything to gain by telling him either. I have no idea how he’d react. He could be a raving bigot or completely progressive about it, and I haven’t spent even a fraction of the time with him I would need to figure him out on that point. Not everyone needs to know my business and, while I am confident I can successfully educate someone I WANT to come out to on the biological basis for our orientation and that the documented anecdotal evidence shows overwhelming majorities of gay people aren’t choosing their orientations at all, remember that having that conversation with someone is still an uncomfortable thing to do. The other person has to be worth the trouble in some way for me to put myself through that. On a purely personal level, I can’t say that acquaintance of mine is worth that kind of trouble. Coming out to him would be purely a political act—“graciously” stepping forward to alleviate his presumed gay-related ignorance he’s been choking on his whole life so he doesn’t trip over himself and fall into a voting booth somewhere where he might clumsily vote away all our rights (in those rare instances where that hasn’t already been done). And, yes, Nebraska is a state where any such rights have been long stripped away. In Nebraska, one who is your husband in your heart is nothing more than a roommate or acquaintance by operation of law.Delete
When you’re coupled, the need to come out is greater because sometimes people can’t avoid dealing with you as a couple. So, yes, those people may need to be told so they have a little time to adjust before you spring your other half on them. I haven’t gotten to that stage yet, so no one is in a position where they “need” to know just yet.
To date, only my family knows and I’m completely open with them. I even told my father by e-mail about my Kansas City adventures and how much fun I had although with much less graphic detail. I haven’t heard back from him yet, but I expect that he will be happy for me. But I still haven’t told my college best friends who no longer live in Omaha. They’ve rarely seen my with a woman and, after so many years, you’d think they’d start to wonder about me, yet they’ve never yet put me on the hot seat and asked. Since I see them only once every year or so now, I can’t say even they are necessarily worth telling until such time as I have a significant other. By that time, I have to put my significant other first and at least offer to include him on get-togethers with old friends. Leaving Mr. Right at home all alone is no way I want to start a relationship with him. On the other hand, if my old college friends actually ask them if I’m gay, I’m inclined to be honest now and I would educate them on gayness at that time. They still might be a little sore at my for not telling them sooner, but I do have their high religiosity to throw up to them. That makes telling them high risk because their fellow highly religious counterparts have a tendency to react poorly.
o dont misunderstand. in the flow if the moment i may have mispoke a bit. i dont announce to all im gay, i have to a burger king-full because i possess a commanders voice at times and i was not going to start a new 'gaymer/gamer' relationship with a douchenozzle and friends. i was kind of 'ambushed' by three and it was a bit of a tactic. fust rule of wictory, off balance your opponent, and i did not yet know if i needed to exercise either of my many defensive skills. plus, i was wearing my kilt which is off balancing on its own to some and hides legwork, and occasionally flashes your junk which unless you have a hardcore hater is pretty intimidating.Delete
if they are your friends, like your family they really wont care so long as you are healthy and happy. if they have questions be as free with those answers as any other convo. any other thing will seem like you're still trying to justify yourself to them as well as any 'lying-actual or perceived' and they may be upset that you have not felt comfortable letting them in.
I agree any questions my friends ask in that area should be answered in a matter of fact manner without flinching. On the “justifying” issue, understand that a misinformed straight thinks gayness is all about a moral failing or a perversion and not an innate characteristic that can’t be helped any more than eye and skin color. So “justifying” myself or not, that reeducation has to happen. The root of the heterosexual hate community’s bigotry and resulting oppression of us IS this misinformation they walk around with that’s been jammed up their ass by hate coaches behind pulpits, Rush Limbaugh-like talk radio clones and theocratic freaks running for President, the House or Senate.Delete
As far as “lying, actual or perceived,” I HAVE lied to them (by silence at minimum) all these years out of a survival instinct. Are THEY so brave themselves that they would freely admit things about themselves they have a plausible belief would cause the people they love and care about to dissert them? What right do they have to expect a bravery level of me that THEY probably couldn’t come up with themselves? You speak of them being okay with it as long as I am healthy and happy. That is true in the case of my family, but only because they are socially liberal. Two of the friends I’m speaking of are NOT that way. One of them I’ve observed has a tendency to get a little preachy if someone conversationally “opens the door.” Since such talk outside of a church environment makes me uncomfortable, conversationally I have always made sure that door was locked—and dead-bolted. The other friend I’m referring to is Mormon, a teacher but, in recent years, was persuaded to be a part-time pastor. When I heard he was doing that, I was not at all happy (though I never let on). For all I know, he may be engaging in “hate coaching” himself now. I rather not know. He also is one I fell in love with back in college. And not just in love a little. In love as far as it can possibly go. Total and all-consuming. He was to me then the love of my life, the one I had searched all my life to find and the one who completed me. Of course, he’s straight and I was his best man in his wedding. Can you imagine how devastating it was to actually watch the love of your life marrying someone else 15 feet in front of you? Emotionally, that was the worst agony I have ever experienced and it took all my strength not to cry. I have tears streaming down my face even now as I type this. He has since gained an extra 200 pounds that finally killed what I felt for him physically. But what I felt for him went well beyond the physical, and there is a part of me that will love him until the day I die.
WOW…that’s quite a tangent even for me. But at least I’m staying at my “over-sharing” best! :-D Getting back on message, there are plenty of grounds to be uncomfortable not telling them. That’s a position I can easily defend if it ever came to that. As hardcore ideologically as I suspect they may be, I just have no confidence that they necessarily can dial back that ideology enough to put my happiness and wellbeing first. And, should it become apparent that I’ve misjudged them, I’ll apologize when that time comes. I can explain that all I could do was play the odds based on what I’ve heard of how other hyper-religious people have handled comings out to them.
actually..i completely understand. it took a bit for that fantasy to die but i slew it. he is the best man ive ever met.Delete
this is entirely my opinion, and i have 'lost' family because they could not; if they and you are being totally honest, how 'friendly' is the relationship really, if they can only be your friend if you live up to their narrow minded expectations-whatever they are. dan pearce posted an article to his blog and read it on youtube, 'im christian..unless your gay' it is a powerful piece.
im not trying to hold you to any higher moral standard here.i do also agree that an education in general is needed for everyone.
You’ve made references several times of having a falling out with several family members, but I’ve never been clear on why. Is it THIS issue—you came out and it went badly and they walked away from you over it? If yes, I am so very sorry. I saw a Davey Wavey video where he said it’s better to be disliked for what you really are than to be loved for what you are not. That’s a noble sentiment, but it sure is a bitter pill to swallow when it happens to you and it’s family members that go walking. If indeed this IS what happened to you, then your life experience kind of parallels Jay’s with his father.Delete
When you came out to the deserter family members, did you attempt to explain that you and anyone else just naturally turn out that way and that you and no one else is stupid enough to make a deliberate choice or decision to be that way? They didn’t buy it, eh?
Remember that “gay biology” video I gave you? I wish I could turn the clock back for you however many years you needed to give you that video back then. When you or anyone else comes out to anyone else, you need three deadly weapons in your arsenal to use all at once: 1. the common sense—no one’s stupid enough to choose this argument; 2. the stats—93-94% of self-identifying gay men report little or no choice in their orientation and 3. The science—Gayness is caused by the brain not getting enough testosterone in utero to develop in the more common heterosexual way. The one came out to should feel completely disarmed and like a moron if he persists in blaming you for your gayness. If the one came out to isn’t figuratively collapsed on the ground in a fetal position bleeding his stupidity, ignorance and bigotry out of his nose, either the one doing the coming out botched the delivery or the “come out-ee” is so irreversibly ideologically fucked up that it’s ultimately a blessing to have someone that wretched out of his life.
ive had a bunch of people leave, for various reasons. many have not intended to be permanent by any means.Delete
my siblings and i are really bad about communicating via telephone or other means. one adores chat rooms to the point that he has, no kidding 20+ different conversations going on for hours and when he contacted me it was always 'i need you to...' my other brother recently went through a divorce, we are children of divorce too, and really needed and wanted my help-which i was incapable of doing and then the way he worded it i was going to be his live in manny. one of their exe's is in 4ever but 'went crazy' like her mom, no kidding, embraced her antigay church and her high school sweety and we were suddenly not good enough, everything she did 'for us' was just too much anymore-but it was all about her control and ocd in reality.
the last one was my drug addict uncle and his drug addict/victim wife and my cousin and her kids. my uncle replaced his shroom hunting with his church of christ and my aunt retreated further into being a victim, they have the appearance of being the perfect family but its that cracked mirror view of ozzy and harriett. the simple story is that they could not stand to see their grandbabies and their daughter not be under their total control and when she started becoming a better parent and the kids started behaving like kids rather than the dolls they were 'raising' they could not stand it and did everything they could to stop it including kidnapping. they limited our options and during all of this i came out to my cousin, so now they know-and an actual death threat was issued not only to me but my mother as well, so even in a dysfunctional suicidal state im still a better parent than they are and the kids knew it. a few weeks after my cousin and her kids moved out they came by and the four year old put her hands on her hips and asked 'are we coming back home now?' they are welcome, my uncle and my aunt are not and are likely to be treated as hostile invaders from the minute they drive up. if they got that far.
unfortunately, talking science with religious nut jobs is about as effective as telling a flat piece of slate it should be granite. as a scientifically bent religious nut job, sort of, i love that stuff. percentages just confuse them, which, here, means they either reach for a rock or their ass. if not both.
Wow! That’s a pretty complicated story. Had it been me, I think I wouldn’t come out while living at home when much of my family was that unstable. Prior to coming out, were you close to your cousin? Did she seem trustworthy to you beforehand? I take it then your coming out was intended only for her consumption and you didn’t especially want it spread around. Or maybe you were initially okay with her repeating it to her parents (your aunt and uncle), but they reacted surprisingly negatively? How long ago did this blow up happen?Delete
The other thing that puzzles me about your uncle is how does one go from arguably being a cool, “groovy” shroomy kinda guy to a hyper-religious nutjob? Sounds like if he made homemade pizza, his pizza toppings would be exceptionally trippy! :-D Too bad I never had the chance to try that, although all that would get me is I’d down on the ground on all fours again chasing spilled letters that melted off the page of some newspaper or magazine in the room. :-D But it doesn’t make sense to me that a former shroom-tripping hippie would turn rightwing like that.Delete
hello everyone it's me tallat, thank you for your kind words i really appreciate it. But yeah im not accepting financial aid im not really comfortable with that. Dont get me wrong , even you thinking this is incredible for me. Its different with jay but accepting aid from you guys would just make me feel embarrassed. So yea thanks for considering it . I dont have a stable connection but i wi.l try to keep in touch as much as i can, meanwhile feel free to add me on facebook under the name oro doughan. Again thank you very much...Delete
Are you absolutely sure? I know those feelings of embarrassment are tough to get around. But your wellbeing and your survival are important too. I know about the nose bleeds and the pain but otherwise know nothing about the severity of your cancer or the treatability of it/them. I also know nothing about how much a lack of funding might impair your access to getting the medical care you need or if and how much insurance coverage you might have under the UK’s social health insurance laws.
You seem like such a great guy and we love you and want to keep you with us in our family. We worry about you. And I and the rest of us are concerned that ill-advised decisions you might be making now might put your ultimate survival unnecessarily at risk. You are special. The world is a better place having you in it. But you need to get your health back if you expect to stay in it. We don’t want to lose you.
You are so young. As I’m sure Jay has told you and from what you have observed from watching their videos, the love-filled life that Jay and Bryan enjoy together is the kind of life that’s possible for you to have to too. When you find “Mr. Right”—and there definitely is one out there somewhere just waiting for you to find him—you can have a level of happiness so great that you’ll feel like you’re going to explode. But you need to get healthy again if you expect to have a chance of getting that life.
The Depfox channel has over 18,000 subscribers. If each gave just $10, which in U.S. currency is a super insignificant amount of money we all spend anywhere anytime and think absolutely nothing of it unless we are homeless and living in a cardboard box on the street, we have the potential to raise $180,000. That could make a decisive difference for you. It could completely remove any barriers to accessing the healthcare you need and would allow you to get all the treatment you need on the early side when it will do you the most good.
I’m concerned that you may be making an enormous mistake by not accepting our help. Please reconsider your decision.
We just want you to be okay….
Tallat - Thanks so much for your message. Like Dave said, it would be an honor to serve you, totally honest. But at the same time it's very important to respect you and your desires and comfort zone also, and maybe even trust that you will reach out if you ever find you really need to? Just don't forget that we're here and we care. :) I'm going to try adding you on facebook. I'm Heather there (and in real life). I just prefer to go by HJ in communities where I'm not afraid to be my lesbian self. haha. Peace to you man. Thinking of you!Delete
I really don't want to offend you guys or anything. Even your consideration means alot to me but I was talking with Jay earlier today and I told him aswell. I'm trying to think about this matter but can't get myself to see accepting it. It's not because I don't trust you or that I think you pity me or anything.Maybe its the way I was raised maybe it's just me being weird but honestly I will feel that I'm using people and my friendship with Jay to my own benefit if I accept money from you guys. So Jay and I agreed that I will try to deal with that feeling if I desperately in need of it but until that time please don't do it. I hope I haven't offended you by saying these..Delete
Don't worry man, no way you have offended us, we totally understand u and we will respect yours decision. But PLEASE, once u see u need our help DONT hesitate ask for us!ok? :D Deal?
Love from ur world wide family!
Btw i just added u on Facebook, Im Samuel Germano there, here and in life! :D
Of course you haven't offended us. Our only concern is for your wellbeing and we worry that decisions you make might jeopardize that. I understand your feelings of taking money from us feels to you like you're taking advantage of your friendship with Jay and Bryan and with us. Had this all begun with you doing the asking, that perception might have some support. We respect your decision not to accept help from us at this time, but I just want to be sure you understand that, in terms of perception of supposedly taking advantage of a friendship, it is ENTIRELY different when we are all practically down on our knees BEGGING you to accept our help. The two different circumstances couldn't possibly be further apart from each other. The first scenario conceivably could have the appearance of manipulation had you asked in the first instance, whereas all that can be said about the second is that you are truly blessed to have so many friends who care for and love you and want to save your life through our help. Saving your life has been what this has all been about from day one.
being a survivor myself -indirectly- i respectfully disagree. however, i recognize and understand your perspective and your wishes here and i will honor it. please, do not hesitate to say the word if and/or when you are willing to accept any financial aid from us (and i cannot currently promise much personally). i have been a student as well working multiple jobs to do it.
know that you are in my thoughts and that all that i can do is available.
also, you have an amazing light up everything smile when it reaches your eyes, may you have more reasons to smile like that in the future.
Size mutluluk dolu yıllar diliyorum!
addiction and escapism do not mix well with the volume and mixture of things my aunt and uncle partook of. he was the bad boy party guy, not really a 'groovy' guy.
my aunt was/is refusing to and maintains an inability to deal with the pretty horrible things that happened to her. having received some of the same treatment myself -sans the drug lifestyle- i have little to no sympathy anymore she chooses to be a victim and i find that repugnant, especially when she involves children.
i could say more but no.
i love rain, with thunder that shakes the house and lightning that is as bright as the sun and the constant sound of the falling water lulls me into a giddy rest filled with dreams and dragons.
Listen up, people. Jay and Bryan are gone 6-14 through 6-18 on their annual Big Gay Vacation. It’s unlikely we will hear anything from them until after that time.ReplyDelete
Jay said above that, even though Tallat has an extreme need for financial help, he so far has refused it from Jay because he already has done more for Tallat than he ever asked for. But if we make a showing that a lot of us will help him, just maybe we can change Tallat’s mind. If a “Help Tallat” fund is to be set up, we need to make good use of this weekend to start declaring our willingness to participate. The more of us that step up, the more willing someone might be to actually go to the trouble of setting it up. PLEASE… if Tallat’s story and the videos about him have touched you, the time is NOW for you to show him some love. WE are his family now. Without US he has no one. Won’t you help him too? If you are, then say so NOW.
In addition to Jay and Bryan, we have three others we know of willing to participate. They are: me, Steeldrago and HJ.
PLEASE stop just lurking and let your voice be heard.
Hey Dave! Crazy conversation with your neighbor! I have a neighbor who invites herself over sometimes. So on occasion, my apartment is a mess. Once she came in and I had the movie The Seminarian out in the open, and two guys are kissing on the cover. (I'm a gay *woman* myself). She looked at the cover then at me, then the cover again. I shrugged and she dropped it and we ignored it. Her fault for coming in uninvited. :-pDelete
I'm an internet techie geek, but unfortunately, not very familiar with financial stuff, especially as it relates internationally. I think paypal is an international site though.
As far as trying to get others involved, maybe we should move this conversation over to youtube or Facebook. I think it would get a lot more folks attention over there.
That’s certainly an option. I don’t have a membership either on Youtube or Facebook and I’m reluctant to join because I don’t like the idea of not being allowed to create two identities (one gay and another more business-oriented) or the notion that I might become findable by search engine. I view these so-called privacy policies as invade-my-privacy policies and I hate the chilling effect I might feel being so exposed like that. Sometimes Facebook blocks access to individual member pages unless you sign up. And you can’t say nearly as much in comments on Facebook as you can in Youtube comments either. If we set up an second discussion zone, let’s do it in comments to the Turkey Part 2 video. That way I can lurk there and see how things develop and not be blocked from viewing it because I’m not a Youtube member. But let’s also retain this thread as a place where people can register their interest in participating should they feel more comfortable doing it here.
If we’re going to pursue a more Youtube-based strategy, it could be even more effective if Jay and Bryan did a “Help Tallat” fundraising video. That would get noticed much more than people all of the sudden making gobs of off-topic remarks in the Turkey Part 2 video comments section. And yet there’s a downside to doing that. When Tallat already has refused help from Jay, it’s conceivable that such brazen and in-your-face fundraising efforts might upset him. You’d expect Tallat to watch Depfox videos themselves, but whether he would also carefully read comments following is unknown. So maybe registering willingness to participate in “Turkey Part 2” comments might be a more clever, semi-covert way of getting the job done. It’s ultimately a judgment call and we may need to wait for Jay and Bryan to get back from the Big Gay Vacation and weigh in on which way they think is the better way to proceed, or whether it’s even prudent or remotely welcome by Tallat for us to be doing these things. Whatever their opinion might be, this is certainly one of the WORST possible times for them to remain silent. I do hope they’ll speak up.
Until such time as they speak up and say, yes, we’ll make a fundraising video or say, no, stop all this it’s thoroughly unwelcome and completely unacceptable to Tallat, let’s use comments following “Turkey Part 2” as the Youtube location to register interest in participating. All with the understanding that this thread also remains open as a “sign up” zone too.
ok...to preserve dignity is the only reason i suggested ANY subterfuge and why i asked what organizations tallat may be using.Delete
i am going to call the local cancer society monday and see who the likely groups may be and then go from there and find out what their individual policies are on donations, especially international donations. a youtube fundraiser is fine (if done correctly?-i dont even know the tou of that, right off.) i have a few other options i know of that i have 'recently' joined. the issue becomes getting any funds to tallat, reliably - of which for his safety, im sure, not much has been said to id him otherwise. tallat has gotten a lot of positive comment from other gay turks/muslims(?) who may be helping him via the london mosques too.
im still a skeptic at heart and broke more or less myself. faking a finance minor has taught me there is lots of ways to screw the whole ship. it is unnecessary to do a full org for one guy.
im sort of impressed though and do not think im backing out- i am fighting off strep+ because of my sincerity and dedication. that said money is a different thing, with different rules.
i will update you asap, on what the cancer society tells me. once more into the breach...im doing it by fone im not ready for a real life cancer patient encounter yet-not knowingly.
That would be so great if you could get some information from the cancer society on what any options may be. Yes of course the number one goal needs to be respect for Tallat. Maybe there is a fund in the UK that he will be using, and we could donate to that in his honor. That would probably be the most simple thing to do.Delete
I only mentioned facebook and youtube because the audiences are bigger there than here. Although, I agree, as far as interaction, I am more comfortable with reading, writing also. Though I do have accounts on just about everywhere. haha.
Peace guys. Good luck Steel. Hope you feel better!
thank you hj. i am working on the getting better. basically my whole head has erupted into a giant bit of disgusting as the antibiotics kill this crap and im exhausted whenever i stop. im having to use a painkiller/sleep aid at night though sitting upright while exhausted seems to let me sleep just fine when i need to be awake.Delete
this death by strangulation known as strep+ i have has interfered with my plans to call the cancer society today. i will persevere though.
Jay sures likes to help out the young ones....pervReplyDelete
please don't let your jealousy at tallat having a friend and mentor like bryan and jay in his life when he needs them prevent you from loving yourself and others, that would just be sad. for you and all the lives you could positively impact by living up to the lesson offered here.Delete
You're really being quite kind here. I don't think we have somebody jealous here. I think we probably have a rightwing hater on our hands instead. Let's just ignore him.
No its a YouTuber who I used to call a friend who is a very sick person and gets off attacking my family.Delete
Now I don't want to give satisfaction to this guy by saying anything but yea I'm having a hard time ignoring messages like this..Delete
i feel i have lots to make up for. the nature of certain things and the state of despair i was in could have turned far worse. i got what i wanted and it could have been really really horrible.Delete
usually i dont engage and im learning to ignore the ones i have not previously but im also not going to ignore the impulse i had on this one, it may do no good for the target i believe its intended for but it may do others good.
I don't know if you've been following the conversation with Tallat above, but his answer regarding accepting help from us now is a firm "no." Go ahead and stop any communications you might already be having with the American Cancer Society.
Jay and I have been in touch by e-mail about this too. There is nothing more you and I can do for now.
Dave I am still trying to work on him...He has been told that his insurance will cover his surgery but not his care after the surgery maybe we can look into some cancer groups in London that assist people in need like TalatDelete
Don't know if you saw my last statement to Tallat, but I tried to explain his perception of taking advantage of friendships with you and us really only is plausible had he asked us in the first instance for help. But when we are down on our knees BEGGING him to accept our help so we can save his life, the applicability of that perception doesn't hold up so well.
Jay i think that reaching cancer groups in London its great idea. I dont think he would refuse help from them, even knowing that we moved the groups to help him, right Tallat? :D heheDelete
But of course Tallat, that if u really think in what Dave have said, there is no reason for u dont accept our help, or AT LEAST Jay's help! (What we can do, Jay, is help u secretly so u can help Tallat ;) hehehe )
So as u can see Tallat, this people here wont stop trying help u. We may respect ur decision, but we dont agree with it.
Good thoughts guys, I'm sure the UK must have programs in place to help folks out similar to American Cancer Society. It can't hurt to learn about them even if we don't move forward with anything now. But yeah just keep us in mind should the need arise. We're here, we care (and most of us are queer?). haha. :)Delete
Peace to all.
information is always good even if it is information already known. i was never going to just jump off and do, i am usually really good about impulse control. hence my previous 'whoa, hold on' comment. i have already sent an email to some people regarding organizations and i will get that info up as soon as possible.Delete
As you continue to discuss things with Jay, an analogy regarding the help we want to give might be helpful. Imagine you’re at a public swimming pool. You attempt a tricky dive of some kind and it goes badly. You hit your head on the edge of the diving board and black out. Very soon afterwards, we find your body at the bottom of the pool and you’re not moving. One of us dives in, retrieves you from the bottom, brings you to the surface, lays you out on the side and starts administering CPR (coronary pulmonary resuscitation). The motive for doing that of course is to SAVE YOUR LIFE. The help we are so desperately wanting to give you is the financial equivalent of giving you CPR. In the swimming pool scenario, your very survival depends on receiving the CPR. Likewise, given the state of your cancers and how crucial it is to get them treated early while it’s hopefully still manageable, your very survival may depend on receiving our help. You simply don’t cut somebody’s head open, play around in there, staple him all up and immediately throw him out into the street! You’re NOT going to be able to manage completely on your own right after your surgery and the medical supervision which normally follows a major surgery is something that you MUST have, period. Since your insurance will not cover that aftercare, you need a “Plan B” fast. We can be that “Plan B.”
The important difference between the hypothetical and your circumstances ISN’T that one involves administering a medical procedure and the other involves the giving of money; it’s that we didn’t need your permission to give you the lifesaving CPR, but seemingly we DO need your permission to give you what may be equally lifesaving aid financially. And that’s a pretty perverse difference indeed.
Earlier, I had proposed that all non-homeless Depfox subscribers contribute just $10, which could raise $180,000. On an individual basis, all $10 buys in the U.S. is a large fast food meal, such as McDonalds or Taco Bell. Now you understand in operational terms how insignificant $10 is for any one person here. It’s considered a very trivial amount of money that we spend anytime, anywhere, all the time and we never miss it. So, for any one of us, it really is no big deal. But acting collectively we can raise a sum of money that IS large and significant. Such help would be a lifesaver for you and you would have enormous difficulty raising that amount by other means.
Are you really ready to just throw your life away just for the sake of perceptions of supposedly taking advantage of friendships when those have been thoroughly demonstrated above to be ill-founded? Are you REALLY?
How weird.... I found my comment immediately gone and I tried to paste it back in from Outlook and it didn't seem to take for a couple of times. on the third try it finally worked. Yet the tally count of comments went up with each attempted posting I did but couldn't see it show up. Surely it wasn't removed by someone else?Delete
Bryan, you are one of the most AWAKENED people I've ever met ..., well, online. The things you four do change me and many-many others. THANK YOU! It is a relief to know that Jay is back home and safe. I pray so is Tallat.ReplyDelete
Oh, I'd gladly donate 10 bucks for Tallat if you guys (Dave& others)make it work.ReplyDelete
sometimes i can be aggressive about certain things. as a multi-point example; i had a friend who called me bro, we bbqed and rolled dice/made stuff up regularly, literally almost every week, for many years. in this time his water heater failed and i found out about a week, or so, into a multi-week period that they had no hot water except what was boiled on the stove. ive been there done that, it is perfectly serviceable. however, this person was ten minutes from my house and may as well have been a next door neighbor in that regard. i have and still do occasionally help complete strangers in kind of random ways, i will do no less and far more for those i consider family. i, absolutely, bit my friends head off. it was complete hubris for 'my bro' to go that long without saying something to me. let alone not asking about doing needed laundry. i get it, like i said i have been there, i have done my laundry by hand. having been the poor kid (seriously not knowing if we were gonna have food let alone a roof), you get through those starving times not by holing up and being silent for your pride because you dont want to appear to be what you are-dead broke, you get through them with the family you have and the family you make, period. unfortunately, sometimes the family we have fail us and themselves and refuse to be there, which is why it is up to those of us willing to step up to act as much as possible in that capacity. this is my perspective and my belief, and this is why i am willing to help you as much as i am able tallat and as much as you allow.ReplyDelete
If Jay and Bryan ever get Tallat to change his mind, I would think a fundraising video would be the single most effective means of focusing Depfox subscribers’ attentions and raising the most money. I can’t know, of course, but I would think the traffic here is much smaller than what the Depfox channel receives. Not in any particular order, but some of the more persuasive points to make in such a video might be these:ReplyDelete
1. Explain clearly what Tallat has coverage for (i.e., the surgery), what he DOESN’T have coverage for (i.e., post-surgery care) and the consequences for Tallat if he DOESN’T somehow come up with funding to cover the latter.
2. What Tallat is like, and how Tallat has touched Jay or affected him.
3. Explain the relative severity of his illness.
4. How Tallat is special and how the world is a better place having him in it.
5. We are a big family, we look after each other and, when one of us is in trouble, we step up to help.
6. If you were in a similar jam as Tallat, wouldn’t you want the love and support of your family and friends to get you through your own crisis?
7. How truly insignificant $10 per person is for the vast majority of us (i.e., it buys a large fast food meal)
8. If Tallat’s story has touched you, YOU need to step up yourself. This is no time to be apathetic and just rely on someone else to help out. ALL of our participation is essential because we’re going for big composite numbers.
Also, whatever funding mechanism is used, I would think our having control over the money would be critical. We probably shouldn’t use an organization who will just give to financially challenged cancer patients in general; it has to be an organization or conduit where ALL of the money we raise for Tallat goes to him and no one else.
I have another interesting non-coming out story—this time from work. Kind of a “what would you do” sort of game. I switched car dealerships to a much smaller one with 5 or 6 salespeople including myself. I just finished my third day there. Someone brought in tacos for everyone over the lunch hour. I had one myself and afterwards was in a room adjoining the larger one where we normally are when we aren’t with a customer. One asked me from the larger room how I liked my taco. I said it was good and the hotter it was the better. The other guy replied, “you like your tacos as hot as possible just like your women?” Being so new and not wanting to make wave right away, I replied, “That’s right.” Shortly later, I overheard them talking about a couple of gay men who got beat up outside a downtown gay bar. And I heard my boss, who’s younger than me, joking back and I heard him use the word “fags.” I then thought to myself, “Oh, brother. I’m around THOSE kind of people.” My new place of work is within the Omaha city limits, so it is covered under our new anti-gay workplace discrimination ordinance. But my workplace is quite small and the apparent homophobes I find myself with now are people I can’t avoid being around.Delete
You’ve heard me many times comment on how well equipped I now am gay education-wise if I choose to come out to someone. (I.e., no one is dumb enough to actually choose this, the anecdotal evidence of 93% of gay men in a study report little or no choice in their orientation and, finally, how “gay biology” works.) Question: If you found yourself in these same circumstances with what could be a very unreceptive audience AT WORK, would you just keep your mouth shut on that issue or would you make plans to come out to them in order to attempt an “attitude readjustment” on them? Something along the line of, “I can tell you’ve had quite an attitude problem on this issue for some time, but that’s been based on misinformation you’ve been walking around all your life and which has been fed by hate coach pulpiteers and theocratic freaks running for President every four years. Well, now you have the REAL facts so, if you STILL persist in blaming gays for being what you’ve now learned they were born as and did NOT choose, all that does is make you look like a fucking moron. Now you don’t want to be perceived that way, do you?”
What would you do?
well, depending on how the day and if i was angry, in a moment where 'fag' was said directly in my hearing i may possibly go off about hateful bigots grumbling or i may say something like 'hater says what?'Delete
im not really sure and im all out of nice. i may be able to pull off the condescending and say something like, 'really? that's good to know..'
Just to be sure I was clear, they all believe I'm straight at this point. The things you indicated you might say, although not explicitly saying "I'm gay," pretty clearly indicate you are because it's very unlikely anyone other than a gay person would refer to "hateful bigots" or "haters."Delete
During discussions here of what haters are up to, I'm sure you've seen me on many occasions direct some pretty brutal sarcasm toward them. When we're talking about them here, I will admit I have quite a mouth on me. But I'm different in person at least in that way in that I don't tend to be confrontational with people, when their gay epithets were "merely" referring to others in the context of a story they were telling. I may well let that go and instead use that time to observe them and listen carefully to their relative level of bigotry so I know better how to deal with them in the future. Now if they are specifically directing gay epithets toward another person to his face or directing them at me, that's a different matter and I will NOT let that go. I will respond in kind, but much much worse with my favorite heterosexual epithets: "theocratic freak," "shiite republican," "toothless redneck trailer trash,"the abortion that should have been" etc, etc.
Also, if they started discussing their support for marriage discrimination, I think I would speak up then too. Now, given how small a workplace we have there, I don't think I'd particularly want to come out to them to defend marriage equality. I think what I'd do instead is say I have a cousin who's gay, who I'll say is partnered and who had me watch a video on gay biology. THAT will be my pretext to educate them on how overwhelming majorities of gay people aren't choosing their orientations and how gayness is caused by the brain not getting enough testosterone in the womb. I can then say I met my cousin's partner, that they've been together for 17 years, they're super happy together and desparately want to get married and that I hope they'll be able to someday.
hey tallat, bryan and jay here are a bunch of links you may find useful.Delete
so again my emailing has apparently failed but google did not.
this is dated but its a start.
im not sure how helpful this one is going to be
this one appears very detailed
this group is mentioned repeatedly here is their home page.
I also spoke to Paypal on their customer service line to see if we could use them as a donation hub (if Tallat ever gives us the go-ahead). I e-mailed Jay as to my findings.
I told the woman who helped me, whatever resource we use, it must be one where we control the money and where it ultimately goes. If the organization just gives to cancer patients in general and we can't funnel our money specifically to Tallat and no one else, at least I say that option is unacceptable.
Not knowing how religiously Jay and Bryan read ALL comments posted here, you might e-mail them at home to notify them you posted all these cancer links.
Your e-mails don't go through? Mine do just fine, but I use Outlook for trhat rather than clicking an e-mail link here, typing in fields and then clicking "submit."Delete
i dont think its a failure of delivery, i think they just get lost in the mix. i may need to be more aggressive in my subject lines, you know something more along the lines of read me now and your cock will make the hulk wither or something.Delete
i spent almost two months emailing people for the r2l screening while trying to meet the people in person and all of those emails just got lost in the mix, then when i finally did meet the people within 2 meetings i basically had everything set up but for a few obstacles that popped up, hence no r2l screening yet and people have not emailed back about the one that was sposed to be this month. which is the source of my email frustration.
Jay and Bryan are probably constantly buried with "you're an inspiration to me" type messages, so you really need to send Tallat-related stuff high priority for it to cut through. I've been doing that and I hear back from them just fine within a reasonable period. For example, I've heard back from Jay twice today alone.ReplyDelete
for me personallyDelete
while i enjoy responses from them and there was a very brief period where i lived for them, i got over it. im not currently aware of anymore i can do for tallat but if you think they need the links emailed i will.
Yes, go ahead and e-mail it. Talks with Tallat are still underway and at least some progress is being made though I think it’s better not to post specifically what I know. I do wish there was a way to e-mail you directly and just tell you what’s going on. Since any continuing talks may be of a sensitive nature, anything I tell you “off-post” needs to be kept to yourself and not posted here either by you or me.
Steel, I have an idea…. Since you have a blogspot profile, why don’t you temporarily create a link to your own e-mail and, once I retrieve it and get it in my Address Book, I’ll immediately post here that I have it so you can take that link down again, if that’s your wish. In direct e-mails you might get from me, Dave is my real first name, though it’ll arrive saying “David”, and those e-mails also will display my last name, and that begins with the letter “F” and ends with “zen.” My e-mail address itself will have the word “bear” within it. With those clues, you should have no trouble identifying me in your home Inbox.
I’d really like to be more forthcoming with you than I think is wise to do here. And, since we’re friends now, isn’t it kinda silly we don’t have a direct means of communicating apart from here anyway?